Protein?

[Babs2]

I have basically eliminated dairy from my diet. (Except for an OCCASIONAL ice cream treat in this 90°+ wonderful weather we are having)
I do eat eggs, tuna, chicken, beans and fish to get lots of protein.
I do overdose on all types of vegetable.
Usually use flatbreads for sandwiches... which is part of a quick and easy meal involving no cooking.
I have not eaten red meat in years as it now slows my digestion...tho I occasionally will eat it and spaghetti sauce.

Anyway, my question to all those who had eliminated dairy and beans from your diet...
How Do You Make Sure You Are Getting Enough Protein???

Many thanks :-) to all those who respond.


PEACE,Babs

[Sequoia]

I'm not a believer in the need for "lots of protein"...in fact, Dr. Weil recommends that people with MS keep their protein intake on the low side.

Still, you do need some protein to live!

We really do get quite a bit of protein from a varied, veggie-based diet. Just to be sure, I do eat a modest amount of legumes, most of them in sprouted or fermented forms. I figure I've given up the two biggies, gluten and dairy (I eat no meat because I'm a vegan).

Most of the MS diets assume you're going to at least be eating fish and white-meat poultry, so cutting out legumes is safe protein-wise.

[ClearBlueSky]

Try adding some nuts like almonds(I don't eat peanuts, just stick to tree nuts), or almond butter. Also try gluten-free brown rice.

I don't eat dairy or gluten and I am not fond of beans. I try to be aware of my protein intake. There is protein in many different things. Read the labels!

[Babs2]

Too much protein?

How can this be? Isn't it necessary for energy and healing?

Why is it recommended people with MS keep their protein levels low?


PEACE,Babs

[JerryD]

Dr. Weil, MD, has a thought about the ratio of protein in a person's diet. It around 10%, I think. Also, keep in mind Dr. Sanjay Gupta stated that , as far as vegetables go, spinach has as much protein as red meat. The facts are that you need to consume much more vegetables by weight than most people are comfortable consuming, hence the reason Montel Williams makes smoothies. This fact can be verified on several websites and by reading Montel's books.
Any way you slice it, the diet way is the 'only' way one can affect his or her MS and that has been proven by Dr. Swank et al through treatments and 30+ years of follow-up. No other treatment modality has this track record, anecdotal or not. And Swank was considered somewhat of a outsider by the medical establishment. He used drugs when appropriate but relied on diet to deal with the MonSter. I think it is important to read all of the literature.

[Redwings]

Hi Babs:
Extreme amounts of food in the different categories aren't necessary for good health. Yet your choice of words (go back and read your own posts again) indicates that you do think of food in extremes: "lots" of protein, "overdose" of vegetables. And it sounds like you think that if you're not getting "lots" of protein, you won't have any energy, won't be able to heal and will die of malnutrition.

Some of your concerns might be allayed if you learn more about protein intake. Animal sources are considered to be complete proteins. You said that you're already eating eggs, chicken and fish -- all good sources of complete proteins -- yet you're concerned that if you aren't also eating dairy and legumes (incomplete proteins) you won't be getting "enough" protein.

In general, the recommendation for protein intake is 0.8 gram of protein for every kg of body weight. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say that adult women need about 46 grams of protein per day, and that protein should make up 10 to 30% of a person's daily caloric intake (http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyon...much%20protein. They say further: "a 48-year-old female who is active less than 30 minutes a day only needs about 5 ounces each day from the protein group. Some pre-cut slices of meat and poultry, such as a pork chop or chicken breast, can be four to five ounces each. You can see how it would be easy to eat too much." So relate that to your questions, "Too much protein? How can that be?"

That means that you can get most of the minimum daily requirement of protein from one chicken breast. A 5-oz. can of chunk light tuna contains about 3/4 of a woman's RDA for protein. A large egg contains about 6 oz. of protein. Vegetables, nuts, seeds and grains also contain protein. So dairy and legumes aren't necessary for an adequate intake of protein, and "lots" of protein also isn't necessary.

If you research Dr. Andrew Weil's recommendations, he doesn't recommend a limit of 10% protein for everyone, only for certain conditions, including autoimmune conditions. (In general, he recommends that daily intake of protein be between 50 and 100 grams on a 2,000-calorie-a-day diet, which is 10 to 20% protein.) He especially recommends the elimination of milk and milk products. He says: "Excessive protein can irritate the immune system and keep it in a state of over-reactivity." That's one way in which "too much" is possible.

One gram of protein contains 4 calories. So 10% of a 2000-calorie intake would be 200 calories or 50 grams of protein. That's already slightly above the average RDA of protein for an adult woman, which is 46 grams. If you're smaller than about 120 pounds and not particularly active, your RDA is even lower. So you can easily meet the RDA for protein and adhere to Dr. Weil's recommendation (if you find it credible) without eating "lots" of protein, or needing to eat dairy or legumes.

The MS-specific diets are generally concerned with molecular mimicry and its contribution to inflammation, and recommend limiting types of foods, such as dairy, legumes and gluten. They aren't concerned much with amounts of protein or percentages of intake. The Swank diet is concerned with saturated fat intake, and doesn't have recommendations about grams or percentages of protein. It also doesn't limit categories of foods, and allows dairy and gluten.

With the variety of MS diets and the conflicting types of foods allowed, it can't be said that any particular diet is the "only" way to affect MS. There appears to have been only one "controlled" trial of diet and MS, and it had equivocal, statistically insignificant results. So there's no proof of the effect of diet there. Nor can anecdotal reports be considered as having a "track record," because anecdotal reports aren't even on the "track." They aren't proof of anything.

However, the volume of anecdotal reports that support the benefits of diet in MS might be enough to convince you to follow one of the regimens (that's regimens, not regiments ) to see how it works for you. They all seem to follow basic guidelines of good nutrition. And none of them require "lots" of protein.

[Redwings]

Oops -- correction

In my previous post, the sentence should say: A large egg contains about 6 grams of protein.

[Sequoia]

Another reason for keeping protein on the low side is that as people with MS, our kidneys are already at risk from frequent UTIs, kidney infections, and as a result of some of the medications we take. Excess protein is excreted through the kidneys, and too much can damage them.

Too much of a good thing is--well--too much.

[nutritiontara]

Lots of great answers by our members....

And yes the average healthy adult doesn't need to consume any animal protein to "get enough protein" to replace cells. (as long as they are eating a very varied diet)

If however, someone is going through chemo, or surgery, or radiation,...in which a rapid turnover of cells is needed then I recommend more protein.

But in those situations, digestion could be an issue (usually is) and I have the patient consume protein drinks. Whey or hemp or brown rice/bean combinations of protein powders.

The base of the diet is vegetables! with a small amount of protein. Of course animal proteins, but nuts, seeds, beans, mushrooms, non-gluten grains are also 'enough' protein for adults.

[Babs2]

Protein...

Many thanks
you've given me lots of good information

appreciate all your responses!


PEACE,Babs

[ffjosh]

Not saying its not good but protein = bigger muscles.

When I had my MS episode I lost a TON of muscle. I was very very week. It took me about a month of lifting weights to get back to normal. If I eleminated protein I would have never been able to get strong again.

My DR said im one of the best pateints to ever bounce back from a episode...with that said I take 180-200 grams of protein a day.

[JerryD]

ffjosh,
Dr. Weil, a Harvard educated physician and modern pioneer of the 'alternative medicine' movement in America, says to limit protein to 20% of ones calorie intake daily. So, there was never any suggestion to 'cut out protein' on this site.

Protein comes in many foods and is not difficult to integrate into ones diet. The only objection to limiting red meat protein in the diet is that one would need to supplement with an amino acid supplement. There isn't anything wrong with eating 'lean' cuts of meats and chicken and so forth. It's all in the Swank book and McDougall diet.

** Moderator's note - Post broken into paragraphs for easier reading. Many people with MS have visual difficulties that prevent them from reading large blocks of print. **