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    New, possible MS

    Hi,

    So, I wrote a hugely long ridiculous post, and then accidentally erased it. To sum up:

    I have a whole lot of stuff that could be MS, with a major flare-up last winter and another (I hope) winding down now.

    I'm a distance runner, a single mom of two daughters, and I was supposed to run my second marathon last month, except I only ran half of it because about eight miles in, I couldn't bend or move my left leg right, or feel most of my foot. And there was pain. I had issues in training too, skipped a couple long runs because my left calf cramped up so badly I was afraid I'd tear the muscle trying to run on it.

    I was very healthy, but since I started having issues last month, I've pretty much lost bladder function and depend entirely on catheters. My left leg is cranky, my gait is often odd, especially when I'm tired, and I've fallen several times. I have frequent numbness, pain, tingling, and cramping in my left arm, hand, calf, and foot, and pain up my left leg into my hip and abdomen. My urologist sent me to a neuro, who thought for sure I have MS--except my brain MRI was normal, so she told me over the phone last week that it isn't MS. I also had a c-spine MRI, but without contrast, because first she was looking for stenosis.

    I thought at the time her pronouncement that I don't have MS was good news. But the more I read, the more I am learning that it's more complicated that a normal/not normal brain MRI.

    And the more I learn, the more I realize just how much various things have deteriorated (like typing and writing--I'm left-handed), things that I ignored, or wrote off as just tiredness and training too bad, because single-mom-runner.

    Things that I never connected to anything, or to totally disparate things, suddenly seem to scream MS--like how a few days ago, I took a steamy hot shower in the middle of the day. I don't usually do that, because I'm always tired after showering. Sometimes, after a lot, hot shower, I'm so tired I feel weak and dizzy and sick, but I usually take my longest, hottest showers after long runs, so I thought it was from running, or that I was a little dehydrated. But then this week, just a mid-afternoon shower--and was weak and dizzy and in pain and felt general shaky and too unwell to do much of anything for about two hours, and I thought about how heat can trigger MS symptoms. And a shower became a disturbing clue, or a sign of my grown paranoia.

    I was using poker chips last week to keep score in a board game. And I couldn't remember which colors were which number. Even though I'm used them this way for twenty years. Suddenly I saw a cognitive deficit.

    So, I'm afraid that I'm embarking on a potentially years-long adventure in the limbo-land of undiagnosed, untreated neuro issues. That's a scary and frustrating thought.

    So, hey, nice to be here, glad to have found this place, etc

    #2
    Did I mention my typo has suffered? Yeah, apologies for all the weird errors in my post :/

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Snowdrift and welcome to MSWorld.

      It is possible to have MS but have a normal MRI. Approximately 5% are diagnosed with MS with clear MRIs. I was one of them.

      However, as the "5%" indicates this is not very common, although it does happen.

      There are numerous conditions, diseases, some medications, vitamin/mineral deficiencies and mental health issues that have similar symptoms as MS. Many of those other causes can overlap one another with symptoms.

      If your Neurologist doesn't believe you have MS what does he think is causing your symptoms? There is other testing your Neurologist could do to help rule in/out MS as well as other conditions. You may have to be your advocate to get to the bottom of what is going on.

      Best wishes.
      Diagnosed 1984
      “Lightworkers aren’t here to avoid the darkness…they are here to transform the darkness through the illuminating power of love.” Muses from a mystic

      Comment


        #4
        I can relate

        Wow your story is very similar to mine. Same left leg problems, urinary issues, weakness in arms and cognitive issues. This is my second bout, first one happened eight years ago. Doctors though for sure it was MS. Had lesions first MRI, but they healed and none have shown up ever again. Thought I was home free until now. It is very exhausting and frustrating to live with these deficits everyday. I hope you find answers soon.

        Comment


          #5
          Snoopy--thanks for your comments.

          My neuro hasn't said much; I'm a little frustrated because communication seems to be difficult with her. But I did see my PCP and am currently waiting for results of tests for various deficiencies (B12 and D? Maybe something else too?) and for Lyme and Porphyria.

          Lyme is a real possibility, although my symptoms would be a very unusual presentation, because a couple months before my symptoms started, I had an unexplained illness with fever about three weeks after having camped and hiked in a "Lyme endemic" area.

          Of course with the huge can of worms that Lyme diagnosis is, I'm not quite sure if I should trust a negative result on that one either :/

          I have read that the urinary and gait issues tend to be related to spinal lesions more than brain lesions, so I want to ask about contrast MRI for c-spine and maybe t-spine. I also want to find out what strength of MRI machine they have.

          My primary doc is recommending I switch to a highly regarded university hospital neuro department for a second opinion. I like my neuro, although it seems like communication is lacking in a big way. I've never sought a second opinion before, always kind of thought of myself as low maintenance. It seems like I'm not quite done getting the first opinion yet, but I'm tired of going back over and over, one little bit at a time.

          I even wonder if my neuro really meant to convey a definitive pronouncement that I don't have MS. At my first visit, she said I don't have it, and said she thinks I have stenosis. When that MRI showed no stenosis, she started looking for MS, and then over the phone in a really quick convo said that the MRI was normal, so therefore no MS. I wonder if she just means these things less definitely than I've been taking them.

          I dunno. The whole thing is very frustrating.

          Comment


            #6
            So yeah, at this point, I'm wondering about that 5% number. Whatever I have, it's not common. But the 5% who have ms and no lesions visible on MRI--is that no lesions on a full set of t-spine/c-spine/brain/optic nerve MRI with contrast, or just 5% with no visible brain lesions?

            I hope to find out tomorrow if the machine is 1.5t or 3t. If it's 1.5t, I may follow through on my primary doc's advice to go to the university hospital. I'm sure they have a 3t machine.

            Comment


              #7
              Hi Snowdrift,

              But the 5% who have ms and no lesions visible on MRI--is that no lesions on a full set of t-spine/c-spine/brain/optic nerve MRI with contrast, or just 5% with no visible brain lesions?
              I can only answer this question based on my own case.

              I was diagnosed a very long time ago. The MRI was relatively new and in Colorado there were only 2 MRI machines for the entire State.

              I had a brain MRI (clear/negative). I had x-rays and a myelogram of the spine (clear/negative). A lumbar Puncture (positive) and numerous other tests (negative).

              I received a clinical diagnosis based on the positive Lumbar Puncture, neuro exam and symptoms.

              At the time of my diagnosis I was in the middle of a severe exacerbation (relapse, attack, flare-up) which remained through the entire diagnostic process (3 or 4 months).
              Diagnosed 1984
              “Lightworkers aren’t here to avoid the darkness…they are here to transform the darkness through the illuminating power of love.” Muses from a mystic

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks. I do have some abnormal neuro signs--hyperreflexia and babinski sign. I don't know if I have Lhermitte's sign or not. I have a sharpish sensation when I bend my neck forward, a it feels like a tugging or pulling sensation down towards my left hip, but it doesn't feel like an electric shock at all, just a sudden, pronounced moderate pain and tugging.i think the neuro put it down as negative, but again, I wonder if it's that clear cut. I know I didn't always have they sensation in my neck and back.

                It seems like any time I don't immediately respond to a question about a symptom with a strong, definitive affirmative, the neuro decides it's not there at all. But I've been minimizing pain and other problems for a long time, just to make it easier to cope. And it's hard to compare my experience to normal, as my only experience of reality is, y'know, mine. No idea what is normal about it and what isn't.

                Comment


                  #9
                  MS Specialist

                  I am sorry to hear about what you are dealing with I really do hope that it is not MS, but based on my experience..if you strongly suspect MS you would do well to try and get a referral to an MS specialist. I say this only because my first neuro (general neurologist) missed my diagnosis. He did the wrong protocol on my MRI's (spinal and brain) and misread the results of my lumbar puncture (said it was negative and it was positive..9 oligoclonal bands and an elevated Igg Index). Prior to the MRI and lumbar my neuro was 99% certain it was MS based on my symptoms alone. My case was very obvious....foot drop...leg weakness...spasticity...etc. EMG and blood work had ruled out about every other possibility. I ended up wasting months when I could have been diagnosed and treated properly.

                  So if your gut thinks it might be MS and you don't have complete confidence in your current neuro...I would get that second opinion. I did end up at an MS specialist and had my MRI redone on a T3 machine and what do you know...found lesions..a few in the brain...but primarily spine.

                  I guess at the very least an MS specialist has seen pretty much everything and can rule it out if nothing else.

                  Again, I pray that you don't have MS. But as my case demonstrates...doctors can miss things and make mistakes. I do hope you are able to get some resolution

                  Beth

                  Comment


                    #10
                    LHermittes sign:

                    Bending head down (chin to chest) and experiencing electric shock sensations or vibrating/buzzing. These sensations will only last seconds but can be repeated each time the head is bent down.

                    LHermittes, when related to MS is caused by cervical spinal (c-spine) cord lesions. LHermittes is not exclusive to MS.

                    I have had LHermittes for almost 30 years. I experience vibrations/buzzing from mid spine down and sometimes just waist down. I do have cervical spinal cord lesions and where MS has done most of the damage.
                    Diagnosed 1984
                    “Lightworkers aren’t here to avoid the darkness…they are here to transform the darkness through the illuminating power of love.” Muses from a mystic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      No symptom is exclusive to MS :/

                      I'm pretty much assuming that my neck sensations are not electrical enough to be anything but neck arthritis. But I also spent a couple years assuming my arm and hand issues were related to a previous injury, and that my knee issues were related to running. And that my hip and calf and ankle and foot issues were related to knee issues. And that urinary issues were related to too much coffee. And...and...

                      Now I have a weird gait, can't run some days, chronic pain, a neurogenic bladder, chronic constipation, headaches, don't type well, fall down, and everyone in my life is oh-so-happy for me about all the diagnoses I haven't gotten yet, and hoping I don't get a bad diagnosis. MS would be a bad diagnosis, but I really want the correct diagnosis at this point, even if it's bad. It's weird to wake up every morning and wonder what won't work today, for no apparent reason.

                      I'm getting repetitive and whiney at this point. I'll stop.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Just wanted to update that I've been referred to a too university medical center neuro department. So, feeling more confident that if there is a diagnosis to be found, they will be able to find it.

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