Difficulty getting the needle in....

[hmarie47]

So I've been injecting (manually) copaxone since last summer, and doing the actual injection hasn't been an issue. Lately, it's physically difficult to get the needle to go in, and when it does, it hurts was more than a tiny needle should (or has). I have been doing 45deg injections for a while, and that helped a lot but now this is just a pain in the butt, literally.

Pharmacy people were not helpful. They thought it was a weird question, and thought maybe the skin was hardening and I should massage it or something first? Or, alternately, that I'm too skinny (I'm not, really) and hitting a muscle. As far as I can tell though, muscle does not come that close to the skin, so it must be a skin thing.

Anyone else experience this? I haven't noticed any lipoatrophy, but I don't really know what to look for. How can you tell? The only pictures I can find of it (specific to copaxone) are on people larger than me; if there's not much fat to begin with, are the dents really obvious immediately, or do they have to develop for a while? This might be a rude/dumb question but I'm confused.

[MyGirlsMom]

Me too!

Hmarie47,

Yes, I too have the same challenge, but I have been on Copaxone for almost five years. I don't have much fat on my body (5'6" and 125 lbs or so). I have rotate religiously since the beginning, but on my butt (hip) there are places where I can either hardly get the needle in anymore or if I get the needle, the fluid won't go in. Sometimes it is so stressful, especially when you are in a tough position just to inject in that location.

This location doesn't show any dents/bumps, but my thighs and arms do. In fact, my arms don't look so good to me anymore. . That is why I decided to go on the 40 mgs three days per week. I think it helps.

I wish I knew why some sites are so difficult. You haven't been injecting very long, so please make sure that you are rotating really, really well. Perhaps we have wicked muscle in our butts, and that is why it is so hard for the needle and med to go in!

Overall, I am hoping to stay on Copaxone for another couple of years, but site location issues may require me to stop Copaxone sooner. I trying to just take it one day at a time....

[AriD]

I had this difficulty with copaxone too. I had to stop injecting in my arms or thighs after about 8 months because there was no place else to go. I had hard reddened areas and to avoid them wound up going in muscle. Then started having same problem with abdomen and butt. Had to switch to betaseron so fewer injections per week. The lumps did slowly become very small indentations from lipoatrophy. Now I only inject abdomen and butt and rotate around them. I would have liked to stay on copaxone since I had no other side effects. The copaxone nurse may be of help. Did you call them?

[Cat Mom]

Try pinching (big pinch) the area you're injecting into. Also, I've been pushing down on that little bump that forms for approx 30 seconds immediately after the needle comes out. Don't rub, just push.

I've been on Copaxone for almost 7 years, I'm 5'8" 125 lb so not a lot of fat. The pushing thing has saved me from developing permanent under the skin lumps.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Jen

[DianeD]

Same here

I've been injecting for about 4 years. I can't do my arms at all because the injection sites swell up, ooze and get dk. red. They stay swollen for weeks.

As to injecting and finding it is painful and difficult to get the right spot, I have that too. I feel around, push on parts of my legs, etc., trying to find a good spot. The skin is hard in spots and it really hurts to inject. I've had to try to inject in several places, it's frustrating. I also find many of the spots bleed after the injection even though I try to avoid capillaries.

Isn't this fun!!! :-) Diane

[hmarie47]

Well, guess I'm not as weird as the speciality pharmacy nurse thought

Hah. Although unfortunate?

I try to pinch as much as possible, but....on my legs and arms that's impossible (arms because I'm doing a contortionist act with my arm on my knee while my foot is on the sink...yes, funny, and legs because....I bike everywhere so there's a pretty bulky muscle on the top of my thighs?), and everywhere else the best I can do is grab a hand's width of flesh and get it to raise up a little. Now that I have some winter/home cooking fat going on, I can actually pinch my stomach and hips a little, but still, it's certainly nothing like the 2 inches shared solutions insisted I could do....

I usually try and push down on the bump after, generally with the alcohol pad that's still in my hand, but I'll try doing it for longer/harder.

Also: think it's maybe worthwhile to shoot for 60-90 degrees, on the assumption that even on skinny people, the muscle isn't that close to the surface? I started out injecting at 90 deg, and it hurt more, but not enough to make me think I was stabbing a muscle...I don't know what sort of relationship that might bear to lipoatrophy, but I could take a little more pain to avoid skin nastiness in the future.


Maybe standing in really contorted positions (because I don't have anyone around who I'm willing to let stick a needle in my butt) contributes to the problem (i.e. all muscles not relaxed)? Any thoughts on that? The self-injection thing doesn't seem like a problem I can solve anytime in the near future, so if people have creative and non-physically strenuous tactics for injecting in arms/buttocks/back of hips, please let me know!

Ugh, I'm going to have to actually monogamously and seriously date people just to have someone around to poke me with sharp objects at some point in the future when I am no longer capable of gymnastics. Screw MS; I was enjoying being single, and meant to be so forever......

Or go off meds when I can'y physically give them to myself. Whatever, at that point, probably fair indication the copaxone isn't doing what it should be, anyway.

[pitlover91]

I too sometimes have trouble sticking the needle to the point where it hurts like I'm stabbing myself. I have to pull it out and and reinsert in a different place. But if its still painful I use a heating pad on the site where I'm going to inject and it makes it easier.

[Cat Mom]

hmarie47, a quick tip for doing arms. Use a pillow to make the back of your arms visible by pushing on the pillow with them.
Jen