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    Low-T (testosterone) in women????

    Just wondering if this forum is anything like the Nutrition and Supplements. Is there a Tara for this forum????

    I'm the caregiver. We just finished the 6 month trial converting from Rebif to Gilenya. THANK YOU Oak Clinic, Green Ohio.

    So far Zero side effects and NO FLU symptoms 3 times/week.

    She is Spinal RRMS diagnosed 3.5 years back now but with symptoms for a year before that.

    Her age is 48.

    I think this is significant. Hysterectomy with both ovaries removed at around age 34. So it took around 10 years before the MS reared its head.

    She has ongoing symptoms that I think are unrelated to her MS and more related to the Hysterectomy. During the past year we have titrated her off of a few fairly serious sctip addictions. But she still takes an anti depressant and Vicodin for back and general body pain.

    And, she is a smoker. She has been able to quit fully 3 or 4 times now with two bouts using Chantix. Her MS developed soon after using this.

    She is so immobile that I feel it makes this issue even worse. She could do more if the pain wasn't there.

    The laundry list of symptoms are:

    Severe lack of energy to the point she says it feels like she has sandbags weighting down her thighs.

    Insomnia. She gets between 2 and 5 or 6 hours /night but seldom goes to sleep before 7:30 AM

    Severe Pain. Full body pain. Might this be Fibro?

    Loss of sensation in her feet.

    Depression.

    ZERO Libido.

    I started researching this list on the internet. Starting with Female sexual dysfunction and what I found lead me to this conclusion.

    There is an extremely strong correlation between the hysterectomy and MANY autoimmune diseases. MS is one.

    The following link reinforces this: http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Multipl...is/show/747747

    (I am going to check with the MS Society to see if there have been any studies concerning this.)

    Somewhat scary but it's better to know what we are dealing with.

    AND, there are several ways to reset the system so that these hysterectomy (especially ovary removal related changes) can be compensated for.

    It sounds like what is missing from the system is Testosterone. Or, as the commercial for us guys coins it: "LOW T".

    From what I've read online, reintroducing testosterone may alleviate most/ALL of the above symptoms including the depression.

    The only possible negative that I can see could be an improved immune system. I will have to talk to her Neurologist before going any farther with this.

    Now, the trick is how to do it CORRECTLY.

    Has to be bioidentical. Can't be a patch as she is allergic to latex. I don't like the injection route as the dosing doesn't make sense and creates the usual side effects. Pill form is BAD for the liver. Sublingual is better but still bad for the liver.

    I think I want to have her try a cream I found from Australia.

    The plan will be to talk to her Neuro and GP to make sure this makes sense with them. We will need bloodwork to do this right.

    I guess I would like to know if anyone out there has tried this and if so, what were the results????

    Any input is appreciated.

    Glyn!

    #2
    It's been reported that those with one autoimmune problem often will develop more than one. I would be more prone to see a connection with endometriosis and MS than the hysterectomy.

    My only experience with androgen therapy was taking danocrine for endometriosis. Danocrine is similar to testosterone in some respects. The side effects did nothing for my libido. Not to say testosterone therapy doesn't have merit, I am just not sure the risks outweigh the benefit.
    My side effects were irritability, acne, I swear my voice got lower, more unwanted facial hair. Glad I wasn't on it too long.

    I have to say I felt my best when I was pregnant, and the studies on Estriol (or is it Estradiol?) are interesting as they relate to MS.

    Comment


      #3
      [QUOTE=Glynie;1309878]From what I've read online, reintroducing testosterone may alleviate most/ALL of the above symptoms including the depression. ... The plan will be to talk to her Neuro and GP to make sure this makes sense with them. /QUOTE]
      Hi Glyn:
      I agree completely that you'll have to talk to your girlfriend's doctors about you plan. It's apparent from you posts that you have an incomplete and imperfect understanding of immunology, endocrinology, pharmacology and epidemiology, to say the least.

      You've taken a single concept -- in which there is a grain of truth -- and taken it so far off base in reference to a person with a complex physical and psychological history -- all apparently to force "facts" into proving something that you want to be true -- that I barely know where to begin to address all of the errors in your "logic." Your girlfriend's doctors may or may not have enough patience to do that. It isn't a simple answer of just applying a "cream from Australia" and all of your girlfriend's various symptoms will disappear, like putting oil into a machine. You have much to learn, Grasshopper.

      Bear in mind that you brought this up and you asked for input. In a public forum, posters often get what they ask for, even if it isn't what they want to hear. I've read your posts, including the one in the caretakers forum. Nowhere have you mentioned that any of this is your girlfriend's idea. Is this what she wants and has asked for? Or is improving your girlfriend's libido your idea of finding a way to get a physical "reward" for all of the caretaking you've invested in her? The way you've described the situation, that's what it looks like.

      Comment


        #4
        To be fair I am posting a link to a pubmed abstract regarding testosterone therapy. I like this reference because it refers to some results of other studies. Note the indication that testosterone gels might be in the works. I'll have to look up the Aphrodite trial results, sounds interesting.

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19487090

        Comment


          #5
          To be fair, I did say that there is truth to the use of testosterone. The testosterone itself isn't the issue. It's the oversimplistic pursuit of it without awareness or consideration of the several complicating factors of the case that's problematic. The situation is complicated enough that only the patient's doctors -- not nonmedical, self-selected posters on any forum -- should be advising about it. Also problematic, for me, is the single-minded pursuit of it to provide a sexual benefit to the caregiver (the OP) as a "reward" when the person with MS has, herself, not expressed any interest in it and a possible benefit to her hasn't been established.

          Comment


            #6
            THX

            Thank you for the the insight into the "dark side" of my psyche and what I am trying to do for my MSr. My true motivation.

            What we had for a few months back in our twenties is enough for a lifetime.

            After going through the 6 months of getting her off of all the scrip meds her (GP) doctor had her addicted to and making some real strides through use of supplements (and of course living with this every day all day), I think I do have some idea of what is going on here.

            Am I an immunologist? NO. Have I read as many technical articles as possible along with doing everything else, yes.

            The truth is that she won't do this (any research) but SHE does expect me to delve into this stuff for her. Why won't she do it herself is a question I really haven't asked her.

            As a couple, we have discussed all of her symptoms.

            If this was simply about my getting laid, I'd have ordered this stuff already and be relabeling it happy cream. And, be putting it on her myself without talking to either her or her doctors about why, when and how.

            This is something SHE is concerned about. Why? Because she is deeply worried about our relationship and whether it can last. Not a good combination along with her depression.

            I just spoke with her Neuro yesterday and got a . . . "There really have been no exhaustive studies" answer. What does that tell me? That they are doing the usual. Looking for a pill to shove down your throat for the cash rather than finding the real crux of the problem.

            After all, finding real solutions puts them out of business.

            Why did I talk to her Neuro? Because I want to know if there could be any possible interaction with her Gilenya.

            My priorities are as follows: An improvement in her depression and an energy increase would be the most welcome. Third on the list would be better sleeping cycles. If she could put away the dishes every day it would be a big deal around here.

            Let's put it this way. Just throwing something out there. I am a healthy 50 year old. I haven't been to a doctor since before my oldest daughter was born and she's 21. The most drastic medication I take other than my fish oil is an asprin once in a while.

            But, I wonder if that would be the case if my Testes were removed when I was in my mid 30's??????

            For me everything is on the table. Liberation treatment, everything. I refuse to be closed minded about potential treatments. If this can help with her well being and general health with ZERO side effects then I want to try it.

            My opinion of this hormone thing is that just doing one of the several hormones is probably not a well balanced approach. My thought is that it would be better to use all of them in concert to get her back where she should be for her age. Monitored and adjusted to HER system.

            What a radical idea.

            I still have to look over the suggested link. Lots of work here taking care of my parents (Dad with Neuropathy) and sister with Fibro too.

            Glynie

            Comment


              #7
              pubmed link

              Thanks for the pubmed link.

              THAT is what I was looking for. That and personal experiences from members. (Something you really can't get any other way than through the forum.)

              Why am I considering the Australian product? Because it uses Bioidentical Testosterone and is purported to show fewer side effects.

              Nearly all of my research points to MANY potential benefits from hormone therapies not simply Libido improvement. The abstract for the Pubmed article seems to focus on only this aspect.

              Comment


                #8
                I would really look into Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN).

                LDN boosts the body's endorphin production 2-300% for about 16-20 hours after you take it. Increasing endorphins result in:

                Increased energy
                Reduction in depression
                Increased libido

                Endorphins are directly tied to sex and energy.

                Comment


                  #9
                  And maybe look into the studies coming out of UCLA on Estriol and MS.....I believe hormones play a part in my case.....my docs want me to take progesterone to oppose the estriol, and I am deciding....
                  LDN sounds like an interesting option to try as well, although I understnad it can interrupt sleep....

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Pubmed

                    This is the first article I happened to read at PubMed.

                    Hmmmmmmm

                    Pretty far from a NO.

                    Please read:

                    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...9/?tool=pubmed

                    G!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      PubMed Article

                      Also posted the following on my thread in the Ladies Room:

                      This is the first article I happened to read at PubMed.

                      Hmmmmmmm

                      Pretty far from a NO.

                      Please read:

                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...9/?tool=pubmed

                      G!

                      Comment

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