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    Strange Neurologist

    My wife (46) has been diagnosed with fibromyalgia for over 2.5 years now and has all of the usual symptoms but recently newer more serious issues have come to light. She can no longer drive....she has not driven for over a year now (maybe longer). I can see her energy levels have decreased dramatically over the last while and even more-so recently. She used to be very active around the house and yard and was always extremely organized. She always paid attention to the smallest of details. She took care of our bills and banking, cleaning the house, and laundry....all while working full time as a caregiver in a home with 4 clients with varying degrees of physical and mental disabilities. In the past she was a very sharp and organized person - attentive to others needs. She has changed....more-so recently.

    The new issues are:

    She tires very easily and will have a nap a couple of times a day...some days not so much. With a little activity, shopping or just walking in the mall for exercise, she gets very tired and has to go home and rest (I can see it in her face). On occasion she displays an inability to concentrate, and seems frustrated when I try to explain something I find interesting...this is not like her at all. She has had stabbing pains in one leg, double vision-an "aura" off to the left of her eye, balance issues (she has to walk with a shopping cart for balance - in the mall), heat intolerance, concentration, calculation, typing problems, her organizational skills have nose dived from very organized and precise to mid-low...confused...missing details she would normally take care of, memory loss, forgetting tasks she is doing mid stream, incontinence while shopping...

    One day she and I went upstairs to the neighbors. They have two children 2 and 8. Like all children they were loud, vying for attention (I also was loud)...within a minute or two her face went white and she had a blank stare. We had to leave. I have noticed this same look when we are shopping at Walmart...white face, almost unresponsive...one word answer or not at all...for 5 or 10 mins or until she gets fresh air....

    One day we were doing the dishes....she gestured to her left and asked me to pass her a "hash brown"....the only thing to her left was a roll of paper towels...I asked her if she was OK....she said yes...she looked fine...not tired at all. We joked about the hash browns....I was scared.

    One day, sorting some clothes to take to charity, she complained she felt hot and like she had a large boil, about the size of a grape fruit, on her neck....she knew in reality that there was no boil but she said it felt so real.

    She mentioned she has headaches almost every day (not migraines) but takes nothing for them....she does not want to be reliant on headache medication....this is typical for her. She also said her right hip and leg bother her almost every day...it feels like an electrical shock and a dull aching pain. She also mentioned her feet feel like she has a large square cotton pad on her toes and balls of both of her feet....this is a daily issue. I have to say she rarely if ever complains of these problems....I have usually have to initiate the conversation.

    Some of these symptoms come and go.

    Anyway...
    GP ordered an MRI and set her up with a Neurologist. Neurologist sent her for vision and motor skills testing (I don't know what the tests are called)...also blood tests. We got together with him in his office to discuss the results of these tests....not sure about the other tests but the MRI came back with multiple lesions. He suggested these could be caused by MS and set her up for a LP. He gave us the distinct impression she may have MS and that the lesions were significant....therefore the LP. Before the LP he sent her for more testing.....electrical shocks to her legs and arms or something.....very painful she said. Here is where it gets strange....

    On our visit to find out the results the Neurologist kind of did an about face...LP was clear....no word on the other tests (he is not very forthcoming? talkative?) He said she did not have MS. The lesions were now insignificant, probably caused by migraines or sleep apnea (she does have sleep apnea and had migraines years ago). He implied that maybe she was depressed...it's like he thought she was nuts....faking it! No other information was given to us....No idea of what my be causing these new issues...conversation kinda ended on the depression note, but she did say she did not feel depressed and just wanted to know what was wrong with her and why she was getting worse.
    She is far from a hypochondriac and although she takes medication for mild depression she insists she is not depressed. I agree with her...she has been very happy and content....but obviously does stress about having these health issues and not being able to do all the things she used to do. We did asked him if these lesions were new or old lesions...He said there is no way to tell.

    We left his office shocked and silent...so long...so many tests and no results. No idea of what is wrong with her.....As a Neurologist we thought he would have come up with something better than "many Mimics to MS symptoms" and "sure you are not depressed?" We thought he could have given us SOME direction, advice, more testing....something! These symptoms are serious....certainly not in her head....who WANTS to be incontinent in a store? There has to be some reason she is having these problems...if not MS then what? She has been tested for Lupus, Limes and other diseases...all clear.

    We came home an did a little research and all of a sudden had a multitude of questions...

    A few questions:

    Is it really impossible to tell if lesions are new or old?
    Are clear LP's definitive..."you don't have MS?"
    Do the MRIs taken of the brain include the brain stem/base?
    Should the Neurologist have done a MRI or her spine?

    <sigh> TIA.....Tim (Canada)

    #2
    Tim: I am sorry you have been through so much, both you and your wife. It is hard to tell if lesions are new or old, that is often why neurologists will check another MRI in 3-6 months to see if anything changed.

    An LP, a negative one, does not exclude an MS diagnosis. Up to 15% of MS patients have a clear LP. It will usually convert to positive at some point in their disease, but perhaps not.

    I would advise you to seek a second opinion with an MS specialist.

    Good luck
    Lisa
    Moderation Team
    Disabled RN with MS for 14 years
    SPMS EDSS 7.5 Wheelchair (but a racing one)
    Tysabri

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you for your reply Lisa,
      Another funny thing is the Neurologist did not mention that he would like to follow up or do another MRI...it was like we were dismissed as simply depressed...or nuts...

      We will seek another opinion.

      Tim

      Comment


        #4
        Hi Tim,
        You sound like a very kind husband.

        I noticed that you are from Canada like me. Yes, our neurologists can be "strange" for lack of a better word and in my experience they don't go that extra mile to suggest or send you somewhere else to get more testing or to see another colleague who looks at other diseases.

        You will find that many of us here get the depression answer when they can't figure us out, and it comes too soon before many other MS mimics are ruled out.

        Please get a second opinion and if you go with your wife to her appointments like my husband comes with me you will lend credibility to her cause and you can help ask questions and help disagree with the depression thing if you both feel it is not that and ask for additional help.

        I hope that you have a GP that can help you as well.

        I hear your frustration and share it as well.
        Take care,
        swingingwillow
        Limbo lander on hold with a fast busy signal...

        Comment


          #5
          Please find a another doctor.

          Who knows better than you or she? Really?

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Tim

            Your wife and I share many symptoms ... the cognitive difficulties are downright depressing.

            I'm in Ontario, and although the process has seemed crazy slow, I'm actually making headway wading through the morass of the medical system. I started up with a bang in January. My initial neurologist told me I was having headaches (it was trigeminal neuralgia). Specialist number 2, at a stroke clinic, told me yes, I had had TN, but dxed me with migraines. All my other symptoms were auras (muscle cramps, urinary troubles, hemiparesis, speech problems and confusion, unable to write, type, read (blurry vision), palinopsia). I've had no headaches or migraines lol.

            What helped the process along -- an episode of arm weakness and mumbling/confusion/wrong words in the presence of a cardiac nurse friend, who took me to the ER. Then, during another episode, I had my daughter drive me to my gp so they could "see" what was going on. At this point they had received the note from the ER visit. (both happened last week of April) My doctor actually wrote the referrals to three ms clinics while I was sitting there. The wait was going to be 10 months to a year.

            My gp has been wonderful, however is not up on ms. I was sent for a second mri once I had limb involvement -- probably should have had a cspine done then, but didn't (neuro was still dxing headaches). I did, however, get a cancellation and had the mri 4 days after they received the request. I'm booked now for cspine and mra in July. And I've just been booked into an ms clinic, as of today, for a July appointment -- in Toronto, only 2 months and 4 days after my referral, which is practically miraculous.

            I hate making waves -- too polite, don't want to inconvenience people, etc. This process has made me realize that the only advocate I really have is me (and now my gp, thankfully). Your wife is lucky to have you -- I've had to write everything down ... journal it all, then summarize it, because my short-term memory is shot. (Hubby's wonderful, but medical inclination is not one of his many gifts :-) ...)

            This must be very scary for you ... and it is for her, as well. I have to admit, I smiled about "passing the hash brown" -- I do this ALL the time now, and I'm at the point where I'm trying to find it funny. The really weird thing is I do the same thing when typing -- use completely wrong words. My hubby has really had to ramp up how much he does, and I feel SO guilty because he's a really busy guy and I'm supposed to be capable. The guilt makes it even harder for me.

            So ... just know that you and your wife are not alone.

            A.






            One day we were doing the dishes....she gestured to her left and asked me to pass her a "hash brown"....the only thing to her left was a roll of paper towels...I asked her if she was OK....she said yes...she looked fine...not tired at all. We joked about the hash browns....I was scared.

            One day, sorting some clothes to take to charity, she complained she felt hot and like she had a large boil, about the size of a grape fruit, on her neck....she knew in reality that there was no boil but she said it felt so real.

            She mentioned she has headaches almost every day (not migraines) but takes nothing for them....she does not want to be reliant on headache medication....this is typical for her. She also said her right hip and leg bother her almost every day...it feels like an electrical shock and a dull aching pain. She also mentioned her feet feel like she has a large square cotton pad on her toes and balls of both of her feet....this is a daily issue. I have to say she rarely if ever complains of these problems....I have usually have to initiate the conversation.

            Some of these symptoms come and go.

            Anyway...
            GP ordered an MRI and set her up with a Neurologist. Neurologist sent her for vision and motor skills testing (I don't know what the tests are called)...also blood tests. We got together with him in his office to discuss the results of these tests....not sure about the other tests but the MRI came back with multiple lesions. He suggested these could be caused by MS and set her up for a LP. He gave us the distinct impression she may have MS and that the lesions were significant....therefore the LP. Before the LP he sent her for more testing.....electrical shocks to her legs and arms or something.....very painful she said. Here is where it gets strange....

            On our visit to find out the results the Neurologist kind of did an about face...LP was clear....no word on the other tests (he is not very forthcoming? talkative?) He said she did not have MS. The lesions were now insignificant, probably caused by migraines or sleep apnea (she does have sleep apnea and had migraines years ago). He implied that maybe she was depressed...it's like he thought she was nuts....faking it! No other information was given to us....No idea of what my be causing these new issues...conversation kinda ended on the depression note, but she did say she did not feel depressed and just wanted to know what was wrong with her and why she was getting worse.
            She is far from a hypochondriac and although she takes medication for mild depression she insists she is not depressed. I agree with her...she has been very happy and content....but obviously does stress about having these health issues and not being able to do all the things she used to do. We did asked him if these lesions were new or old lesions...He said there is no way to tell.

            We left his office shocked and silent...so long...so many tests and no results. No idea of what is wrong with her.....As a Neurologist we thought he would have come up with something better than "many Mimics to MS symptoms" and "sure you are not depressed?" We thought he could have given us SOME direction, advice, more testing....something! These symptoms are serious....certainly not in her head....who WANTS to be incontinent in a store? There has to be some reason she is having these problems...if not MS then what? She has been tested for Lupus, Limes and other diseases...all clear.

            We came home an did a little research and all of a sudden had a multitude of questions...

            A few questions:

            Is it really impossible to tell if lesions are new or old?
            Are clear LP's definitive..."you don't have MS?"
            Do the MRIs taken of the brain include the brain stem/base?
            Should the Neurologist have done a MRI or her spine?

            <sigh> TIA.....Tim (Canada)[/QUOTE]

            Comment


              #7
              Hugging you both.

              I just wanted to echo the sentiment that your wife is lucky to have you. I've not been diagnosed with any darn thing (yet) but I'm lucky to be both in the States and in a large city with a leading University hospital, so things are moving along relatively quickly.

              My husband is great too (we've only been married 3 months, though together 7 years - poor guy!) but he's just baffled by all of this. Having children with AI diseases, I'm used to doing a lot of research and reading, but when it's my own problem I'm trying to figure out, it would be nice to have the kind of back-up you're providing for your wife. My own complete and utter exhaustion is making it rather difficult to stay on top of everything, including finding the source of my exhaustion. My hubby is better at other things lol.

              I'm doing the hash brown thing! My 12-year-old son was the first to point out that I keep sliding the word "probably" into sentences where it makes absolutely no sense. Other similar things have popped up very recently, but "probably" has been my buddy for a while now. I like hash browns better.

              Comment


                #8
                MRIs taken of the brain do indeed include a good look at the brainstem and base.

                2. Sometimes neurologists order spinal MRIs. This often has to do with their symptoms and clinical exam. If one is not indicated in the exam, one is generally not ordered. Spinal lesions are very localizing, as are brain stem lesions. However, if you wish to have one, you can always ask.

                Lisa
                Moderation Team
                Disabled RN with MS for 14 years
                SPMS EDSS 7.5 Wheelchair (but a racing one)
                Tysabri

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thank you all for your concern and help. I guess we have to wait (again) for another MRI and then move on to another Neurologist and PCP.

                  Tim

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I am so sorry for what you are going through with your wife.
                    I was so angry when I found the light spot and spinal stenosis in my spinal cord. It was located in my c-spine (neck).

                    At first, my PCP and neurologist thought my neuropathies were from diabetes, then after awhile, when more symptoms showed up, they thought thought it was MS. After more tests and the lack of a second exacerbation, they ruled MS out.

                    Now the MS specialist says it may be "transverse myelitis."
                    The doctor said that I am O.K. for now, but if I get worse, to come back to him right away.

                    My point is that MS is Very difficult to diagnose.
                    I just resort to diagnose. It takes a long time, and several of my doctors thought I was making it all up.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I would take her to an MS specialist to rule out.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My MS specialist in Seattle says the LP does not rule it out and she said about 20% of MS patients have 0 O-bands.
                        I find it interesting how that number keeps growing because in so much literature it says 5% or maybe 10%....hmmm

                        Comment

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