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    Maybe someday . . .

    There will be some actual research on MRI negative MS?

    There are various numbers floating around out there - 1 in 5 develop MS within 20 years, that's 20%. It can and does exist.

    I can appreciate the folks who try to console us MRI negative peeps that the likelihood of this happening is very low, especially the longer one has symptoms, but it's not a consolation because that reality does exist for 20% eventually. Those are the people who were counted and diagnosed.

    Many of us feel like we really aren't counted, because we're dismissed as having nothing, often for many, many years. What happens to the people who aren't counted, or ever diagnosed? Do they just disappear?

    MRI negatives get lost to the system, I'm guessing because this isn't an active area of research. The return on investment isn't there - just like for rare disease like neurosarcoid - and a patient is lucky to have a handful of doctors to choose from in the entire country who have experience diagnosing and/or treating it.

    There is scant information on this, and what does exist slots MRI negatives into possible categories like secondary progressive or primary progressive, where treatment options are more limited or non-existent, and the condition less inflammatory in nature.

    I have noticed one other frequent comment on MRI negative and that is the longer someone has symptoms without MRI evidence, the less likely it is they have MS. This wouldn't exactly be true for someone coming into the medical community with their issues 20 years after the first symptoms occurred. If many of these people get lost early on without care (like myself), the chances of it getting caught in a later stage that is more likely an MRI negative stage is higher.

    There are a lot of details not taken into consideration with these numbers. Many of us in our younger years, with milder symptoms, didn't have the time or money to be seen by doctors. Lack of health insurance, lack of access to adequate medical care, inability to take time off of work and family responsibilities, lack of concern for little oddities that all seem unrelated until they pile up later in life . . . all of this plays a part.

    Considering how little time a neuro has to spend with a patient, and how little history actually does get recorded during these visits (I've only been asked my previous history by ONE neurologist out of all four), I have serious doubts about the current information available on MRI negative MS cases.

    Current diagnostic protocols select for a subset of MS patients whose conditions can be monitored. This is where the profit lies. Those of us who don't fit that pattern are sort of lost to the entire neurological research community until we do fit, or some compassionate doctor sees us as an individual rather than a statistic, and decides to do something about it.

    I think there are a lot more MRI negative cases out there than anyone currently believes. Just my 2 centavos.

    I hope that some day, there is more information available on people with MRI negative MS. Until someone studies it, nobody falling into this particular subset counts.
    It's not fatigue. It's a Superwoman hangover.

    #2
    My GP has a patient who had negative MRIs for 15 years until his or her MRI finally showed a whole bunch of lesions and she or he was diagnosed with MS.
    Take care,
    swingingwillow
    Limbo lander on hold with a fast busy signal...

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      #3
      My GP and neuro believe that if lesions don't show up on MRIs, they don't exist. At least, that's how they make it sound to me. "These are very sensitive tests." Maybe so, but they don't catch everything.

      I have scarring in the lining of my stomach that was never picked up by the MRI. There were also polyps in my colon that weren't picked up by the MRI. They actually had to get in there with a camera to see these things that a macroscopic in size.

      It's medical dogma. They know these things to be true for every other medical condition out there, that sometimes a person has to have a scope and biopsy to be sure. But when it comes to neurology, somehow the MRI is the all seeing eye.
      It's not fatigue. It's a Superwoman hangover.

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        #4
        Originally posted by swingingwillow View Post
        My GP has a patient who had negative MRIs for 15 years until his or her MRI finally showed a whole bunch of lesions and she or he was diagnosed with MS.
        Exactly. And think of how long that person suffered until their experience was validated.

        This MS was there long before the lesions showed up. What took them so long? Why didn't this person have lesions imaged from the start? Where is the research on finding these answers?

        What sort of obstacles and prejudices did this person have to suffer through all those years while trying to get someone to take their problems seriously?

        I'll never forget the story of the man who shot himself in the chest because his doctors kept telling him there was nothing wrong with him. He was later diagnosed with MS. I don't remember if negative MRI was part of his story, but he was definitely put off by the medical community over and over again until he just couldn't take it anymore.
        It's not fatigue. It's a Superwoman hangover.

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          #5
          I honest don't remember if my first MRI about 18 years ago was just body scan or included my head or not. They were trying to find out what was wrong with my digestive system (every other issue was ignored), but if my head was done, then apparently there were any lesions at the time. Not that they told me anyway.

          The rest of what you say sounds all too familiar to me. For me it decades until I was finally validated just last month. And even now my own GP doesn't believe the scan with 20 lesions, or two different neurologists, that all pretty conclusively agree there's no doubt I have MS, and have had it for a very long time.

          Sigh...it's all very frustrating.

          Keep fighting, Lusciousleaves.

          Comment


            #6
            "Many of us feel like we really aren't counted, because we're dismissed as having nothing, often for many, many years. What happens to the people who aren't counted, or ever diagnosed? Do they just disappear?"

            I had MS Sx, even permanent complications for DECADES before an alert doc 2009 even questioned WHY I developed neuro-muscular diplopia in 1964 when I was almost 19!

            WHAT happened to me? Even worse... I had serious fatigue, walking & neuro issues and more in the 1980s.
            MY issues were simply dismissed as / blamed on my diabetes, even when I insisted "something else was wrong". Instead of listening or testing that bought me a trip upstairs to the shrinks! Even when the shrinks said I was not even depressed, just "adamant" something else was wrong it got me absolutely NOWHERE!

            I went thru many HELLs over the decades.... been there done that, should not happen! (my opinion)

            Gomer The above is the reason for my name here.

            Comment


              #7
              Gomer, it was such a long haul for you. How did you manage all those years? Where do you think you'd be today if it had been caught earlier?

              On the flipside, where do you think you'd be today if it hadn't been diagnosed and you were still in limbo?
              It's not fatigue. It's a Superwoman hangover.

              Comment


                #8
                Digging up as much info on this subject as I can find, and it's sparse. There is one survey of studies that finds reports of numbers ranging from 6% to 29% MRI negative cases of MS. Many of these were done in the 80s and 90s, and obviously, the MRI studies have improved since then.

                However . . . almost all of the studies showed those cases converting to MS at a rate of 10% within 10 years or 20% within 15 to 20 years. Those who weren't diagnosed with MS mostly ended up with no diagnosis at all, so it was MS or zilch. A very small few, were given alternate diagnoses, but so far, I've found no mention of what those were.

                Also, another study with optic neuritis showed 25% of MRI negative cases convert to MS within 7 years.

                I do wish I could get my hands on the actual studies to read and tally, because those of us in limbo without MRI evidence of lesions need this information. We need to know what to expect. Will we ever know what's wrong? Will we ever have a way to fight it? What is it about our disease that makes it not show up on an MRI scan?

                So many questions, so few answers.
                It's not fatigue. It's a Superwoman hangover.

                Comment


                  #9
                  It is all so frustrating. I have been at this for 7 years now.

                  My MS specialist tells me that if he could find one lesion he would give me a dx. So frustrating!!!!


                  I have a friend in my congergation that went many years without a MS dx. I will e-mail you her story.

                  (((hugs))) and i will talk to you soon.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    My heart goes out to everyone!

                    It took decades for me as well, but not as long as you Gomer. You've become a bit of a hero for me since I joined this site. That your still sane is willing to open up to others is nothing short of a miracle in my books!

                    I hope everyone who doesn't yet have answer will get one very soon. It should take MRIs lighting up if you have so many other standard symptoms. To me that's a bit like when city planners won't put a light up at intersections until after there's been a number of accidents.

                    Okay, it shouldn't be a secret by now, but I'm a hugger...so HUGS for everyone!

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