klonopin vs xanax

[marti]

My neuro recently gave me Klonopin for the MS HUG pain. She gave me Xanax in the past for anxiety. I understand these two are similar. I know the Xanax will help lower my blood pressure if I'm excited and it's up. Does Klon do the same thing?

I'm getting mixed up about the meds. Don't want to take too much of anything or mix them. I cut everything in half (at least) and I don't take both in the same day (usually). Or at least I wait 6 to 8 hours between.

Then, there's the ever popular Ambien to help with sleep. Both the benzos help with that, so I'm laying off the Ambien unless nothing else works. So that mean I'm taking it pretty late... when all else fails.

Any help here?

[maitrimama]

Hi Marti - I like your cautious approach to medications. Xanax and Klonopin are both in a family of drugs called Benzodiazepines, as is valium, librium, ativan and a whole host of others. They are closer than cousins and more like brothers and sisters (coming from the same parent). 2 main things that make them dirfferent from eachother is how fast they peak in your system and how long they stay in your system.

Xanax peaks faster and doesn't stay as long. Klonopin peaks a little slower but stays in your system longer.

Ambien is not a Benzo, I think it is a hypnotic so there is overlap.

You should also be very very careful with alcohol use and taking Benzos because the effect can be synergestic (1+1=5).

I hope this helps - M

[Jules A]

I'm always super cautious with any of the benzodiazepines and also Ambien for that matter. Xanax is probably my least favorite of them all r/t the short half life that increases dependence. Like maitrimama wrote definitely don't drink alcohol with them and also if you have been on any of them long term they need to be tapered, sometimes in a hospital setting depending on the use, rather than just stopping them.

Personally I lump benzos in with steroids in the respect that: they are both a blessing and a curse and not to be taken lightly, imo. I wonder if your neuro realized you are still taking the Xanax when they prescribed Clonazepam.

[Mynamegoeshere1]

meds

I take xanax daily for anxiety and my neuro prescribed klonopin for night spasms. The klonopin had an opposite effect on me though so I am not much help. It made me very hyper and made my spasms worse so I never took it again.

[journeyman]

Anti-anxiety meds. (this may not belong here.)

Hopefully this will be a simple, (but long in order to simplify) lesson in anatomy and psycho-pharmacology. (drugs.)

I have had both and both of those medications and both are supposed to attack anxiety from different places in the brain. Often they are prescribed because of the accompanying effects.

I have been assigned the K. drug because my anxiety is accompanied by angry depression. The K. drug works more specifically for me.

The brain is a very complex organ. Connections from point A to point B must travel through many different centers on its way to the "feeling depressed with anxiety center." This is not a diagnosis but us in the psych field recognize depression by three items. Pain from any source, Self-pity and Self-anger. This is not a condemnation its just the symptoms that we look for. And God knows I have all those.

The programming of your brain determines route that electrical charges take. Mine just happens to take a highway through the bad, past, dark memories which travel through the emotional center that contains anger.

The "I have MS, it's debilitating and no one understands" heads out to the depression center. On its way, as most thoughts, all assigned an emotional tag or color. Mine is anger at what all I went through as a child. (Sexual abuse at the age of five.) (still healing from that and there are still angry residual feelings.) So my "down and hopeless" feelings are now colored with anger. When the thought and feeling arrives at the center that defines and makes you feel anxious and depressed it is carrying the color of anger.

So my Doc. has assigned me the K. drug which specifically tones down the ability of the brain to stick the anger tag on the thought of worthlessness. That way my worthlessness arrives at the depression center much easier to deal with because the color of anger and anxiety have been decreased.

So as you can see it is not easy to just look at the brain as a global thing and one drug fits all. The Doc. is looking for a very subtle and specific reactions to your drug to help you better deal with your symptoms of worthlessness and anxiety.

The Doc.s try global, generic medications first to see it that will tap the problem. Drug X. is one of those. They try to impair you the least they can at first. If that doesn't work they may try a combination or a completely different drug.

Being a MS. Ret. Psych. RN I read everything I can get my hands on. I have learned that the brain is complex and "wonderfully" made. We may never truly understand it function and actions. So...be patient with your Doc. He too is searching for what works best for you without impairing your daily functions.

Hope this helps. With MS patience is not a thing we do well.
Dave
"Journeyman"

[lusciousleaves]

Klonipin can lower your blood pressure.

My doc prescribed this to help with the body-wide tremors when the neuro prescribed verapimil for migraines. I was feeling more fatigued and off-balance than normal on this combo, so decided to check my blood pressure. It was 80/40. The klonipin worked great for the tremors.

[maitrimama]

Blessing and a Curse

Jules - I totally agree that benzos (and steroids) are a blessing and a curse. Benzos can be used for many things (not only anxiety) such as insomnia, muscle spasms, anticonvulsants, panic & anxiety, sedation and alcohol detox BUT side effects and potential dependence, addiction and serious withdrawal are very real possibilities.

I learned early on that it is our own responsibility to know as much as we can about what we put in our bodies including drug interactions. Benzos are very beneficial for many people but I choose not to take any of them based on my own research and experiences.

[marti]

Hopefully this will be a simple, (but long in order to simplify) lesson in anatomy and psycho-pharmacology. (drugs.)

I have had both and both of those medications and both are supposed to attack anxiety from different places in the brain. Often they are prescribed because of the accompanying effects.

I have been assigned the K. drug because my anxiety is accompanied by angry depression. The K. drug works more specifically for me.

The brain is a very complex organ. Connections from point A to point B must travel through many different centers on its way to the "feeling depressed with anxiety center." This is not a diagnosis but us in the psych field recognize depression by three items. Pain from any source, Self-pity and Self-anger. This is not a condemnation its just the symptoms that we look for. And God knows I have all those.

The programming of your brain determines route that electrical charges take. Mine just happens to take a highway through the bad, past, dark memories which travel through the emotional center that contains anger.

The "I have MS, it's debilitating and no one understands" heads out to the depression center. On its way, as most thoughts, all assigned an emotional tag or color. Mine is anger at what all I went through as a child. (Sexual abuse at the age of five.) (still healing from that and there are still angry residual feelings.) So my "down and hopeless" feelings are now colored with anger. When the thought and feeling arrives at the center that defines and makes you feel anxious and depressed it is carrying the color of anger.

So my Doc. has assigned me the K. drug which specifically tones down the ability of the brain to stick the anger tag on the thought of worthlessness. That way my worthlessness arrives at the depression center much easier to deal with because the color of anger and anxiety have been decreased.

So as you can see it is not easy to just look at the brain as a global thing and one drug fits all. The Doc. is looking for a very subtle and specific reactions to your drug to help you better deal with your symptoms of worthlessness and anxiety.

The Doc.s try global, generic medications first to see it that will tap the problem. Drug X. is one of those. They try to impair you the least they can at first. If that doesn't work they may try a combination or a completely different drug.

Being a MS. Ret. Psych. RN I read everything I can get my hands on. I have learned that the brain is complex and "wonderfully" made. We may never truly understand it function and actions. So...be patient with your Doc. He too is searching for what works best for you without impairing your daily functions.

Hope this helps. With MS patience is not a thing we do well.
Dave
"Journeyman"

Ok Dave.. thanks. I have another question. I was prescribed Cymbalta for Fibro pain/anxiety. I have not tried it yet because I'm afraid of mixing all these meds. I have Graves Disease and get some palpitations. Cymbalta lists possible palps as a side effect. So, I'm scared to try it. But I've had 3 medical professionals tell me it's ok. I do not suffer depression. Just anxiety and worry. So, what do you think about this addition??

[rdmc]

I'm always super cautious with any of the benzodiazepines and also Ambien for that matter. Xanax is probably my least favorite of them all r/t the short half life that increases dependence. Like maitrimama wrote definitely don't drink alcohol with them and also if you have been on any of them long term they need to be tapered, sometimes in a hospital setting depending on the use, rather than just stopping them.

Personally I lump benzos in with steroids in the respect that: they are both a blessing and a curse and not to be taken lightly, imo. I wonder if your neuro realized you are still taking the Xanax when they prescribed Clonazepam.

Jules,

I've never taken Xanax, but I've taken Clonazepam for years (10 years), and I take it for tongue and face spasm. It allows me to talk, without the Clonazepam, I'm a slurer, and at times my speech is nearly unintelligible. Same dosage for years .25mg then had to up to .5 a few years ago as my facial and tongue impairment increased.

Here's the deal though (I take it everyday, it's Rx'd three times a day, but on days I don't have to talk much, I don't have to take it as often.) But I hear about addiction, and there have been several days in a row when I've gone without it and have never suffered any withdrawal symptoms. Whether through refill mix-ups, or once I was in the hospital and they had a hard time getting my meds right (because the admitting doctor had written I was on 25 mgs of Clonazepam, LOL, so they weren't going to give me that) but by the time I did get me my .25mg, I had been off the med, cold turkey, for days, and still no withdrawal symptoms.

So I realize the data says it's addicting, but I've never been able to figure out why I don't have withdrawal. Plus, I really think it does nothing for any anxiety I get, but maybe that's because I've taken it so long. And the way I look at it, if I'm going to have to take the drug to be able to talk, and I've had this problem for 10 years, and I don't think it's going away...I don't think it would matter if I was addicted to it, I've gotta take the med.

Is a diabetic addicted to insulin because they have to take it for the rest of their life, and without it they have issues? I really don't see any difference in that scenario if it's a med that we're going to have to take the rest of our life if we're going to function. Or if I stop filling my pump, and have Baclofen withdrawal (which can kill you, so I don't think I'll do that ) but does that mean I'm addicted to Baclofen because I'll suffer withdrawal without it?

I guess I'm confused on the definition of addiction. I always thought it meant physical dependence, but there must be more to it, so straighten me out.

[cosake]

@ Marti - Have you talked with your pharmacist ? The pharmacist may be able to give you some helpful info on the interactions of the meds, etc., even more than your doctor.

@ Jules A - What is the problem with a short half life ? How does it increase dependence ? I've been on low-dose at bedtime for 3 years and only take a 1/4 of a pill 3-4 times a week. My doctors do not seem to be worried. Should I be ?

[journeyman]

Good advice.

Your pharmacist can run all your meds. on their computer for you for any cross inter-actions or adverse effects at your request.

I've been on Clonopin for about thirty years. Twice I was on a mission trip to Central America. My room was broken into and all my medications stolen. I went seven days without it and there was definitely withdrawal. Not like you see in the movies with heroin. I had tremors in all limbs. muscle cramps. insomnia, and paranoia. All-in-all a pretty rocky time.

When I got back I tried to talk my shrink out of putting me back on it but she said I needed it. Then it happened again only the second time it occurred after I checked in my suitcase. Duh. Won't do that again. But at least I knew what to expect. Now I keep them about two feed away.

It is addicting and a controlled substance.
Dave
"Journeyman"

[Jules A]

Jules,

I've never taken Xanax, but I've taken Clonazepam for years (10 years), and I take it for tongue and face spasm. It allows me to talk, without the Clonazepam, I'm a slurer, and at times my speech is nearly unintelligible. Same dosage for years .25mg then had to up to .5 a few years ago as my facial and tongue impairment increased.

Here's the deal though (I take it everyday, it's Rx'd three times a day, but on days I don't have to talk much, I don't have to take it as often.) But I hear about addiction, and there have been several days in a row when I've gone without it and have never suffered any withdrawal symptoms. Whether through refill mix-ups, or once I was in the hospital and they had a hard time getting my meds right (because the admitting doctor had written I was on 25 mgs of Clonazepam, LOL, so they weren't going to give me that) but by the time I did get me my .25mg, I had been off the med, cold turkey, for days, and still no withdrawal symptoms.

So I realize the data says it's addicting, but I've never been able to figure out why I don't have withdrawal. Plus, I really think it does nothing for any anxiety I get, but maybe that's because I've taken it so long. And the way I look at it, if I'm going to have to take the drug to be able to talk, and I've had this problem for 10 years, and I don't think it's going away...I don't think it would matter if I was addicted to it, I've gotta take the med.

Is a diabetic addicted to insulin because they have to take it for the rest of their life, and without it they have issues? I really don't see any difference in that scenario if it's a med that we're going to have to take the rest of our life if we're going to function. Or if I stop filling my pump, and have Baclofen withdrawal (which can kill you, so I don't think I'll do that ) but does that mean I'm addicted to Baclofen because I'll suffer withdrawal without it?

I guess I'm confused on the definition of addiction. I always thought it meant physical dependence, but there must be more to it, so straighten me out.

0.25mg of Klonipin is a tiny dose but I'd recommend tapering it if possible rather than just stopping because it can cause unpleasant things such as depression and rebound anxiety in addition to the more serious symptoms. It has a long half life meaning it remains in your body longer which buys some time if you need to get a script refilled etc. but again I probably wouldn't stop cold turkey especially with high doses or long term use.

Being physically dependent on a medication means your body would suffer from withdrawal symptoms upon abrupt discontinuation, some annoying, some life threatening based on what medication, the dose and length of time on it. As far as I know you wouldn't be considered physically dependent on insulin in this respect because your body wouldn't go into withdrawal if you stopped taking it although your body does technically 'depend' on the insulin to remain healthy.

My understanding is that the big difference between addiction and dependence is that people who are addicted to a medication will do compulsive things that cause problems in their lives and do not stop despite negative consequences to their family, finances, employment, legal implications etc.

[Mynamegoeshere1]

Marti

Marti,

I have taken all 3 together. I also have fibro and take cymbalta for that. I talked to my pharmacist and did a few double checks for myself on different drug sites. They all were in the clear

[Jules A]

@ Marti - Have you talked with your pharmacist ? The pharmacist may be able to give you some helpful info on the interactions of the meds, etc., even more than your doctor.

@ Jules A - What is the problem with a short half life ? How does it increase dependence ? I've been on low-dose at bedtime for 3 years and only take a 1/4 of a pill 3-4 times a week. My doctors do not seem to be worried. Should I be ?

Your suggestion is a good idea for Marti because pharmacists often have great info to share and I'd much rather that over someone on a message boards say so.

The short half life can result in withdrawal symptoms quicker because the medication wears off quicker which can cause unpleasant feelings many times similar to the original symptoms. Unfortunately many people respond by taking more of the medication and continuing the cycle. This could open the person up to both physical dependence and/or addiction. Hopefully others will chime in if this is unclear or sounds inaccurate.

Just generally speaking if someone has been on a small dose for years without needing to increase or taking more than prescribed it sounds like they are using this medication exactly as it was intended. I wish this were the case for more people who struggle with benzo addiction.

[marti]

Marti,

I have taken all 3 together. I also have fibro and take cymbalta for that. I talked to my pharmacist and did a few double checks for myself on different drug sites. They all were in the clear

I've taken very small amounts at different times during the day. But never all together. I have fibro too which is why they ordered cymbalta. Can you tell me more about that one? I haven't taken it yet, but it's being suggested more and more by the doc.