Had to call 911

[Luv2Worship]

I was hanging up some pictures in my new house on Saturday & I stepped up on a chair to hang it & I was hit with the most excruciating pain in my right hip. Luckily my husband was close & was able to support me or I would have fallen off the chair! It still took us almost 1 minute to get me off the chair & to sit down, the pain was that bad!

I had him bring my walker over & he finally had to just grab me & move me over to sit on it because I couldn't move. He then wheeled me to a chair in the living room & he had to do the same thing, just grab me under my arms & put me in the chair. I was crying so hard, & screaming, that I started hyperventilating! I iced it for a while but after 2hrs. my husband insisted that we go to the ER but when he tried to lift me I thought I was going to pass out from the pain. He put me down & called 911. They felt I needed to go by ambulance so that's what we did.

A Cscan showed that my L4 disk is 3/4 gone,& 5 & 6 are completely gone. I have to see a Neurosurgeon for possible surgery. I'm really nervous because I'm not sure how my body will react. Please keep me in your prayers!!

[rdmc]

Sorry to hear about your back problems. I assume you'd been having back pain and the chair incident exacerbated it.

When you say the discs are gone...what does that mean? That the padding between the vertebra have worn away and you're dealing with bone on bone?

Keep us informed as to what the neurosurgeon says.

[mjan]

Please don't have surgery unless you are going to be paralyzed, or lose control over bowel/bladder. No matter how bad, (and I know bad) it won't probably stay this way.

How are you now? Yes, what did they mean that its "gone".. disc extruded out?

Best to you...hope you get relief and soon.

Jan

[CatMom0001]

I'm so sorry to hear of your back pain and problem. Please keep us posted. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

[fishead]

I am sorry to hear you went through this horrendous ordeal.
I DO agree with mjan. Surgery is, sometimes, not warrented. Get a second opinion.

[nappy]

Please approach surgery cautiously and get informed.

At the beginning of my MS journey, I had to have back surgery.

I was having periodic numbness, tingling and weakness in my leg. I would be treated with anti-imflammatories, steroids, muscle relaxants, and pain meds. (sound familar?)

It would gradually get better then go away. It would happen once or twice a year. I would also get vision issues and terrible migraines.

Finally, while finishing my Master's Thesis, an under extreme stress, it just wouldn't quit. My dr. thought I was having back issues possibly early disc disease. I was only 36 and had always been active.

Well long story short, I was in PT and was not able to do the excercises correctly or use the weight equipment correctly. I remember walking on the treadmill for the PT and she would comment about me dragging my leg and try to get me to raise it correctly or more quickly. Finally, I managed to completed rupture my disc at l4/l5.

I undestand absolutely the extreme pain you are going through. The only partial relief came from lying down and having my husband pull on my leg with a beach towel.

I had a lamenectomy because I had lost all feeling and function in my lower leg and foot and wasn't able to stand let alone walk.

The surgery pain was bad, but it was relief and it passed. Kind of like the childbearing pains you can remember them but it was pain that had a purpose.

In PT after my surgery is when I started the MS diagnosis trip. I had continued with issues on the side that wasn't affected by the herniation.

I hope you get some direction and relief soon. I will keep you in my prayers.

Take Care.

[kingrex]

Please don't have surgery unless you are going to be paralyzed, or lose control over bowel/bladder. No matter how bad, (and I know bad) it won't probably stay this way.

How are you now? Yes, what did they mean that its "gone".. disc extruded out?

Best to you...hope you get relief and soon.

Jan

I couldn't agree more.

Surgery does not "correct" anything, which is to say, it won't make your spine normal again. And unfortunately, because the pain is so acute, most people do what you did - go to the emergency room, convinced that such severe pain must warrant emergency surgical treatment. Many surgeons will do nothing to disabuse you of this notion, preferring to do surgery and bank the money. Sad but true.

And folks, while everyone wants to tell their story, it may not be this patient's story. So, while you may have needed surgery, that doesn't mean that this patient does. I think we need to be careful in recounting our experiences to people who are vulnerable. JMO.


rex

[Luv2Worship]

Thanks for all the replies! This is an issue that I have been dealing with for almost 6yrs but NEVER to this degree of pain! I was able to get into my Pain dr. today & ended up even more discouraged. It first started with the nurse going off on me for getting pain meds while at the hospital, saying that I broke my contract & that they would probably drop me as a patient. What?! I knew that i couldn't receive meds from my other Dr.s but when you are rushed to the er by ambulance & they give you something, I didn't realize that was against the rules, besides, I am always honest about what meds I'm on & that I have a med contract. I take 5mg of Norco 3x a day & the er dr. felt I needed something stronger so he wrote me a 5 day rx to get me past this. Then when she left the room she proceeded to tell the dr about what happened & how I screwed up, this was in front of other patients & I could hear her through a closed door! My reg. dr wasn't in so it was frustrating having a dr who didn't know my situation.

I explained immediately to him that I did not realize that I wasn't supposed to get meds at the er, I've been in there many times & have never had my dr ? it & that her attitude was unacceptable. He explained that the reason they do that is because patients go in, get extra meds & turn around & sell them but he said he totally believed that was not my intent so it wouldn't be a problem. I must be naive because I would've never even thought of that!

My one frustration w/ the dr though was that he said nothing was wrong with my back except getting older & that i was just going to have to 'deal with it" I'm trying to figure out how 3 drs have said I have serious degeneration, I've even seen it on my xrays, & this guy says its just old age. While I do not want surgery & will continue to do nerve blocks & whatever else it takes to avoid it, telling me nothings wrong & that the er over reacted just doesn't sit right. It has been 3 days & if I'm lucky I get maybe a 10-15min break for every hour of pain. He didn't even do an exam & told me there was no need for me to be on the steroids or the ibuprofen that the ct showed no inflammation. I made him look at it because not only could you feel the swelling, you could see it!

I am so sick of being looked at like a hypochondriac or a drug addict! I'd love to go to a different pain clinic but this is the only one my ins. will cover...sucks!!

Thanks for letting me vent, then I don't have to take it out on my family!! Love you all!!

[Waydwnsouth1]

IMO I would blow the pain clinic off. Think about these guys get paid by insurance companies to convince you that it is all in your head. Which is exactly what this so called Doc did to you. They get paid to stave off surgeries and what they consider unnecessary medication thereby saving Ins. Cos. money. NO ONE knows your body like you do. Ultimately it is up to you the patient to make the final decision.

My wife tried to get me to go to a pain clinic for my legs. I made it clear I would never go to a pain clinic. She got upset and said they really helped her sister. First off she is extremely gullible and secondly she ended up having neck surgery as the pain became so bad she could not even move her head.

FWIW that's my two cents worth.

[kingrex]

Thanks for all the replies! This is an issue that I have been dealing with for almost 6yrs but NEVER to this degree of pain! I was able to get into my Pain dr. today & ended up even more discouraged. It first started with the nurse going off on me for getting pain meds while at the hospital, saying that I broke my contract & that they would probably drop me as a patient. What?! I knew that i couldn't receive meds from my other Dr.s but when you are rushed to the er by ambulance & they give you something, I didn't realize that was against the rules, besides, I am always honest about what meds I'm on & that I have a med contract. I take 5mg of Norco 3x a day & the er dr. felt I needed something stronger so he wrote me a 5 day rx to get me past this. Then when she left the room she proceeded to tell the dr about what happened & how I screwed up, this was in front of other patients & I could hear her through a closed door! My reg. dr wasn't in so it was frustrating having a dr who didn't know my situation.

I explained immediately to him that I did not realize that I wasn't supposed to get meds at the er, I've been in there many times & have never had my dr ? it & that her attitude was unacceptable. He explained that the reason they do that is because patients go in, get extra meds & turn around & sell them but he said he totally believed that was not my intent so it wouldn't be a problem. I must be naive because I would've never even thought of that!

Abuse of pain meds is rampant, and doctors - especially "pain management" doctors - have heard every line in the book, including he "Who, me? I would never have even thought of that!" Part of drug addiction is not realizing how transparent the denials, objections and deceptions can be. Moreover, a lot of people have overdosed on drugs which they had stockpiled by doing exactly what you did. Did the ER doctor know that you were already taking hydrocodone on a regular basis? FWIW, hydrocodone is not an effective treatment for degenerative disk and joint disease.

My one frustration w/ the dr though was that he said nothing was wrong with my back except getting older & that i was just going to have to 'deal with it" I'm trying to figure out how 3 drs have said I have serious degeneration, I've even seen it on my xrays, & this guy says its just old age. While I do not want surgery & will continue to do nerve blocks & whatever else it takes to avoid it, telling me nothings wrong & that the er over reacted just doesn't sit right. It has been 3 days & if I'm lucky I get maybe a 10-15min break for every hour of pain. He didn't even do an exam & told me there was no need for me to be on the steroids or the ibuprofen that the ct showed no inflammation. I made him look at it because not only could you feel the swelling, you could see it!

You could see the swelling?

When lumbar problems become acute, it can feel like someone's put a knife in your spine. I know, I've been there, and I suffer from disk degeneration and spinal stenosis (essentially, spinal arthritis) every day. The acute pain can last for days, even a couple of weeks before subsiding. Truthfully, anti-inflammatories are the treatment of choice, along with bed rest. Painkillers are ineffective, and surgery for degenerative disease is a very bad idea, from what I've seen over the past 27 years of doing MRI scans.

Managing the problem is usually the best approach, which doesn't mean loading up on painkillers. Instead, try anti-inflammatories and bed rest when your symptoms become acute. When times are good, exercise and proper diet can help keep patients more fit and less prone to acute events.

I am so sick of being looked at like a hypochondriac or a drug addict! I'd love to go to a different pain clinic but this is the only one my ins. will cover...sucks!!

A lot of very nice people are hypochondriacs and drug addicts. And I think a lot of people who frequent pain clinics fit into those categories. I'm not putting you in those categories; only you know what's in your heart and mind. I'm just saying that most doctors would view your behavior as drug-seeking, based upon what they have seen countless other times. Pain management doctors are under intense scrutiny these days; in fact, many require patients to undergo drug screenings before they will prescribe pain medications, in order to determine if the patient is already using pain meds. If they are looking at you suspiciously, it may be more out of fear of losing their medical license than it is about you.

It's the world we live in.


rex

[kingrex]

IMO I would blow the pain clinic off. Think about these guys get paid by insurance companies to convince you that it is all in your head. Which is exactly what this so called Doc did to you. They get paid to stave off surgeries and what they consider unnecessary medication thereby saving Ins. Cos. money.

This simply isn't true. And FWIW, insurance companies don't need help from physicians, in order to maximize profits. They do so by raising premiums and reducing coverage, not by bribing your physician.

An example - I had shoulder surgery in January. When I began rehab, they told me that my insurance company had approved 20 rehab visits - not nearly enough, according to my surgeon. He wrote a letter and the insurance company authorized additional rehab days.


rex

[Waydwnsouth1]

KINGREX, I understand and appreciate your opinion. I too had elbow surgery and was approved for a certain number of rehab visits. Which in my case was sufficient.

I also suffer from disease of the discs in my neck. The pain can sometime be overwhelming. I treat it with a heating pad and take inbuprofen which helps me. I chose not to have surgery as recommended by my doc. If multiple doctors, if I remember her post correctly, said she needs surgery I would have a tendency to agree with them rather than the pian doc. Ultimately our it is her decision. Everyones situation is different.

Pain docs may be good in certain instances, But it is my opinion that in some instances they are not. I personally do not believe in them. Just like homeopathic healing. I am not saying that the Indians and my ancestors the Aztecs were not successful in using herbs and plants in treating ailments. I just do not beieve in them today with modern medicine.

[kingrex]

If multiple doctors, if I remember her post correctly, said she needs surgery I would have a tendency to agree with them rather than the pian doc. Ultimately our it is her decision. Everyones situation is different.

You should re-read her post. Here's what she wrote:

My one frustration w/ the dr though was that he said nothing was wrong with my back except getting older & that i was just going to have to 'deal with it" I'm trying to figure out how 3 drs have said I have serious degeneration, I've even seen it on my xrays, & this guy says its just old age. While I do not want surgery & will continue to do nerve blocks & whatever else it takes to avoid it, telling me nothings wrong & that the er over reacted just doesn't sit right.

Nearly all of us have degenerative disease - that is the aging process. Spinal stenosis is just degenerative osteoarthritis - the cartilage on which the spinal joints slide has deteriorated, and now bone is rubbing on bone. That causes the growth of new, additional bone in the joints, which narrows the spinal canal. Bulging disks occur as the fibrous outer portion of the disk - the annulus - begins to weaken due to being dried out...degenerated. When the annulus ruptures, the central portion herniates through it.

There are a lot of people walking around with these conditions. Some are worse than others, but surgery is rarely recommended. The exceptions are when neurological deficits present - most often a noticeable weakness in one leg or the loss of bladder and/or bowel control. But pain alone is normally not an indication for surgery. And this is not a judgment best made by the patient, who may think he or she "knows her body best," because most patients are not schooled in the actual physiology of what they are feeling.


rex

[MSSINCE09]

drug seekers

when I worked I worked for a very busy primary care physician's office.

We had patients that would doctor shop and come in just to try to get pain medications.

Well a few years ago one of the other PCP's in town got busted for giving out to many pain meds to his pts when 5 ended up dieing from overdose or other overuse of medication diseases. At the time I was the office supervisor and the doctors and I sat down over the weekend that the news story broke out and came up with a plan.

From then on every new patient that called to schedule had to be asked if they had seen that previous doctor. If the answer was yes then we could not schedule that patient until we received records from the other doc and did a DEA on the patient to establish how much meds they were taking. Then the docs would review the info and determine if this pt was on the up and up or if they were just a drug seeker.

I would say the percentage ended up being 99% drug seeker to 1% real pain. I have literally heard every excuse in the book from my kids flushed my meds down the toilet (had to call CPS) to my cat knocked my meds down the sink. After a while you become so jaded that every one looks like a seeker.

We had one patient that doc became real suspicous of and the doctor ran a drug test on this patient who was being prescribed Ms contin Percocet Xanax Clonopin and Adderall and the drug test came back negative for all medications except marijauana. So as you can see it is so hard for the medical community to know who is for real and who just wants to get high or make a buck.

Sorry to hear of your troubles though, and hope you get back on your feet real soon. I know you want to enjoy that new house of yours!

[mjan]

I do feel for you and the pain you have been enduring.

Have had MANY acute pain episodes..but remember always.. what surgeon said: "You are not going to die from this pain." (you just feel like it LOL) He was smart enough to refuse surgery (and I was IN the hospital at the time), as initiating this fusion would set me up for perm problems.

So is it hard? Yes!! Does it seem like it will never improve and you'll never get relief?? YES at times..but then the body does heal..

I DO use anything BUT narcotics/opioids. I do not want to "accidently" become so tolerant to them that now my body craves more..and more.. Steroids, anti-inflammatories help more.

Your description of what happened sounds very real, confirmed by other MDs. I had a similar episode.. so I know how debilitating it can be.

You may need the education about how addiction starts with opiods. More and more doctors are informed about addiction and very careful what they are prescribing. Unfortunately many are not.

Pain IS the trigger in addiction. Its real..felt as real..but it now has become the craving to take more and more. more often until you are addicted..or worse, die accidently.

THAT is why pain mgt clinics put folks on a contract. Its for YOUR good and to protect them.

So, with someone with disc/spinal stenosis both lumber and cervical, I will never take narcotics..as what Rex said is right.. they are NOT a helpful med as far as treating you. Pain killers put you out of your misery..only..for awhile. They only mask the problem temporarily.

Alternatives, starting with ice, anti inflammatory, chiropratic care does help. My chiro uses the B.E.S.T technique. He does not manipulate the vertebrae. Rathr he assists the body to heal itself..with the right help.

Keep us posted as to how you're are feeling..coping..if you like. I hope you'll see relief and improvement soon enough.

Jan