Dr. Jack Kevorkian/Dr. Death

[candycane]

And they're on the brink of a cure anyway

Hello Sparky,
I don't want to frighten you, Sparky, or the newbees. Hopefully advanced cases of M.S. are on their way out with the development of CRABs and any other new therapies for M.S. that will come around. Better yet, a vaccine/cure will come along and discussions on the varying severity of Multiple Sclerosis will be a thing of the past.

Being new to this myself I recently became interested in movies/tv programs with characters that have MS. I watched the movie Hilay and Jackie, about Jacqueline du Pre, a famous cellist whose career was cut short by MS. I realize movies are filled with drama (& this one was) but there was a scene when she was in the hospital finally diagnosed & she said "... But, you know, all that's happening is that my nerve-endings are damaged or something. And I might have to go into a wheelchair. Oh, no. But not for ages. It takes years. And it happens in fits and starts. And they're on the brink of a cure anyway."
This scene really spoke to me. She was diagnosed in the
70's & died in 1987!! Still waiting for that cure !!!

[LindaT5761]

different approaches

I think Candycane is right, that different people approach having ms, whether it's very disabling or not, in different ways.

I also wanted to comment on whether animals have souls. Jewish tradition is that the soul exists on many levels. Some aspects of soul are shared by all living things.

[LindaT5761]

this thread is getting me upset

Maybe this should be its own thread, but I'm what I'm reading is scaring me.

In what percentage of cases does ms cause "a persistent vegetative state"? Coma? Total disability? What's the worst that can happen? How often does that happen?

[Jules A]

Maybe this should be its own thread, but I'm what I'm reading is scaring me.

In what percentage of cases does ms cause "a persistent vegetative state"? Coma? Total disability? What's the worst that can happen? How often does that happen?

I'd start a new thread. P.S. I believe Tawanda's Mom passed away from pneumonia caused by conditions related to MS.

[Tawanda]

I'd start a new thread. P.S. I believe Tawanda's Mom passed away from pneumonia caused by conditions related to MS.

Jules is correct. Once I was diagnosed with M.S., I was actually able to get ahold of my mother's medical records from Beaumont Hosptital in Michigan. Apparently she had 2 bouts of pneumonia in a short period of time and simply could not or would not fight anymore and passed away.

Ironically, Jack Kevorkian died in this same hospital (and incidentally, I was born there, too!).

[Jules A]

Ironically, Jack Kevorkian died in this same hospital (and incidentally, I was born there, too!).

For some reason I find this kind of cool and comforting in an odd way as if you are not destined to suffer.

[Tawanda]

For some reason I find this kind of cool and comforting in an odd way as if you are not destined to suffer.

Thanks, Mon...! It is a weird coincidence, but being that I was born in Michigan, maybe not.

[DianeD]

Same with me.

Having to watch my mother gasping for breath on the day before she died totally changed my mind on this topic. We'll put our pets to sleep to prevent them from suffering, but let our loved ones linger on in agony. Dr. K. was trying to let terminally ill patients have a chance to die with dignity in the most humane way possible. Rest in peace, Dr. K. I'm sure you were given a warm reception in heaven by those folks who you helped on their journey home.

Both of my parents suffered terrible deaths. I had the same experience you did with my mother. I felt completely helpless and it is a misconception (unless you have lots of money or know someone in healthcare) that people are kept comfortable till they pass on. The stupid people who looked after my mother didn't want to give her pain medication because it 'might kill her'! She was dying .....

My mother and dad were good Catholics (in the old fashioned sense) and they suffered through their lengthy and miserable end of life illnesses with patience and hope.

If they had wanted Dr. K and I could have gotten him I would.

The bottom line is that it should be a choice. I do understand the worry of the 'slipperly slope' with this 'choice' situation, but as with everything you put the best effort into controling the situation; you can't always make things perfect.

I do think that some people end their lives quietly and sometimes we know it and sometimes we don't.

Dr. K was a quirky guy and his attorney/spokesperson really did him more harm than good. Most people who worked with him and knew him liked him.

[MSJimmy]

Kevorkian - Probably Ahead of His Time

After 10 years at war and 3 long brutal combat tours, I found that there is either a horrible painful death or a peaceful one. To pass with dignity on your own terms is a much better option; if Kevorkian gave some folks in horrible pain or grieveous disabilty a dignified and painless exit, then he did a good thing. The only place that he went at the end was in the ground, and his atoms back into the universe. Hope I didn't offend. Be good to yourselves and be happy.

MSJ

[kebsa]

A few posts have sort of debated whether if a person who died of pneumonia and had severe MS was it really the pneumonia or the MS that was the cause of death. Another example was Christopher Reeve and his bedsore-

I am assuming that the paper work a medical officer fills in to certifiy a death would be similar to ours. If a person has acute pneumonia and passed away from the effects of pneumonia, it would be listed as the cause of death and the MS would be listed an underlying cause. The same scenario would apply to Christopher Reeves, the infected bedsore and associated sepsis would be the primary cause of death and the spinal cor injury would be an underlying cause-WHen a person with MS dies with pneumonia, it is almost certainly caused by the MS simply because the person would be less likely to get the pneumonia without having the MS but it is the pneumonia that was the final straw if that makes sense

[salamandertom]

I have not watched anything on him, or read much on him. What I do know about assisted suicide and doctors is that it happens - just much more quietly and often than most of us probably know.

The great thing about Dr. K is that he was brave (or crazy) enough to speak his mind publically. I think it is important to say and do what you mean and whether I agree with people or not I will always respect them for doing so.

RIP Dr. K.

[salamandertom]

You have my vote Frederick1,I think you said it all.

Did Dr.Death ever once say he is or was a believer in Christ and asked for forgiveness(repent his SINs) for what he did?I don't know only one person knew that answer;-).

Who cares?

[salamandertom]

I think he did a great service, not only to the people whom he helped personally, but to the entire country, by forcing us to confront the issue and talk about it. I only wish we had come to a different conclusion. Hospice is wonderful, but not the solution for everyone.

I'm firmly in his camp, and was from the beginning.

On a side note, I find it amazingly ironic that someone on an MS board can claim to know exactly how sick someone with MS is just by looking at her. That's exactly the kind of prejudice we face every day, and you're passing judgement on her quality of life and her life (and death) decisions?

Brilliant

[salamandertom]

Do they still say there is no genetic connection then?
Ive heard this over and over!?

No, there is definately a genetic connection, they just cannot find it. They will. So far they have had much more luck finding the regional ties - and the ties to EBV, but there are definately genetic links. I doubt you will find many leading researchers in MS that will deny that.

[salamandertom]

Maybe this deserves its own thread but since I've been diagnosed (& am paying more attention) there seems to be a few different schools of thought among us (in the MS community)

Some seem to be positive & feel like they have things under control.

Others are more somber & quiet (myself included) hoping for the best (but preparing for the worst)

just an observation

I definately am preparing for MS to end my life in about 30 years. I am living to the VERY best of my ability and doing everything I planned on doing before my diagnosis, but I have no illusions about the future. I *know* I have a more aggressive case, and I am sure I will be someone that is facing death from MS. Hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

When I was first diagnosed I was confused by the conflicting data about prognosis. I have read all I need to. I know the truth, and like I said. I know there is not a predictor of the future for me, so I will live like I don't have MS, but prepare for the end that will eventually come. I agree, it is an important topic with us MSers.