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    #91
    Originally posted by Myoak View Post
    I heard today that for those diagnosed, 80% are asymptomatic. I take some comfort in that as well.

    This epidemic is still evolving as is data regarding it and practices to deal with it.

    So far, data in the US is very limited, especially with the very, very, very limited testing which has occurred thus far in the US. If 80% are asymptomatic with COVID-19 then to me, that means this virus will be spread by those who are moving about daily life. Therefore, eventually, and relatively quickly, a great many people will be exposed.

    If the death rate is around .7%, as some have indicated and half of the population of the US is exposed then over one million people in the US would die from this virus.

    A January 29 stat from China indicated, "1370 severe cases out of 7417 patients still alive, so about 18% of cases were classified as severe at the time." Severe meaning required medical treatment including hospitalization.

    So, if about 80% are walking around asymptomatic spreading the disease, about 18% require various degrees of medical treatment, and .7% die, I think it is something entirely new in the modern era.

    The painfully slow government response in handling the outbreak and educating the public is unconscionable. The President said on February 25 the coronavirus was quote, "under control" and "We're really down to probably about 10 [cases]." End Quote.

    Health is a national security issue, IMO. The silly nonsense of pretending COVID-19 could be gone by April works only in a child's world of make-believe; as is the juvenile nonsense of believing a vaccine will be developed in weeks.

    Grown-ups have to deal with reality. And, the reality is this is an epidemic and it is still evolving.

    It is helpful that the government is FINALLY recognizing that and responding. Unfortunately, the powers that be were asleep at the wheel virtually the entire month of February when we should have been much, much, much more engaged.

    The wisdom of initially not testing people and hoping COVID-19 would go away seems not to have been a great strategy. As of yesterday, only about 500 people had been tested, some of them several times. So the government could say that 1500 tests had been done by yesterday. Think of it... South Korea has been testing hundreds of thousands and we tested 500!

    Our national response has been TOTALLY irresponsible!

    Reality is forcing us to face facts and deal with something we would rather not but must.
    The first line above, "I heard today that for those diagnosed, 80% are asymptomatic. I take some comfort in that as well" was a quote from a previous poster, it was not something I said but something I quoted w/o using quotation marks, my bad.

    I re-read the thread this morning to see how the conversation and situation has evolved over the last 36 days since the thread began. Wow, America has changed dramatically!

    The US was given a heads-up on this virus by our intelligence services January 3, 2020. A Former CIA Director quoted today in the Washington Post said, "“We always wait for the crisis to happen... I know the human failings we’re dealing with, but the responsibility of people elected to these jobs is to make sure we are not caught unawares.”

    IMO, it wasn't only the elected who were caught unawares, elected people do have critical responsibilities but I don't believe they were the ones failing to roll out COVID testing. I fault the CDC and NIH for that fiasco. Even today, they are just now talking about BEGINNING to test those who are asymptomatic to discover what percentage may be unknowingly infected and spreading the disease.

    Better late than never but look at the shocking elevation in cases during the time we have been in the dark about asymptomatic carriers! Half a dozen more states only this week-end urged EVERYONE not in necessary services stay home but several remaining states still haven't invoked that policy. Why? IMO, because they don't have data proving asymptomatic people are spreading the disease. Yes, testing matters.

    Figure it out, folks! If you live in a state that does not have a stay at home policy, please be safe. The idea is that you not get infected and if you are infected and asymptomatic you won't unknowingly infect others.

    Statistics don't lie. Good planning and execution is reflected in numbers. How do the numbers look to you? Collectively, how are we doing compared to other countries? What can we learn from them?

    I have tremendous respect and admiration for all those on the front lines. They are doing a heroic job. The least I can do is keep my butt home because it may not only help them; it may save me and my loved ones, too.

    Comment


      #92
      Originally posted by Myoak View Post
      The US was given a heads-up on this virus by our intelligence services January 3, 2020. A Former CIA Director quoted today in the Washington Post said, "“We always wait for the crisis to happen... I know the human failings we’re dealing with, but the responsibility of people elected to these jobs is to make sure we are not caught unawares.”
      January 12 - From WHO (World Health Organization)

      "The evidence is highly suggestive that the outbreak is associated with exposures in one seafood market in Wuhan. The market was closed on 1 January 2020. At this stage, there is no infection among healthcare workers, and no clear evidence of human to human transmission. The Chinese authorities continue their work of intensive surveillance and follow up measures, as well as further epidemiological investigations."

      https://www.who.int/csr/don/12-janua...irus-china/en/
      PPMS for 26 years (dx 1998)
      ~ Worrying will not take away tomorrow's troubles ~ But it will take away today's peace. ~

      Comment


        #93
        Originally posted by KoKo View Post
        January 12 - From WHO (World Health Organization)

        "The evidence is highly suggestive that the outbreak is associated with exposures in one seafood market in Wuhan. The market was closed on 1 January 2020. At this stage, there is no infection among healthcare workers, and no clear evidence of human to human transmission. The Chinese authorities continue their work of intensive surveillance and follow up measures, as well as further epidemiological investigations."

        https://www.who.int/csr/don/12-janua...irus-china/en/
        Initially, back in January, the WHO response to the COVID-19 threat was truly pitiful. But they don't have the best intelligence services in the world, we do. Our intelligence services clearly had a vastly superior understanding of the situation in Wuhan than the WHO. I believe the Chinese lied about much and I believe our intelligence services knew they were. JMHO.

        This is why it is important that the US rely on our own intelligence services and administration advisers rather than ignore them. Peter Navarro, who continues serving as a trusted adviser to our President and nation, circulated this memo giving us another heads-up back in January...

        “The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on U.S. soil,” Mr. Navarro’s memo said. “This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperiling the lives of millions of Americans.”
        nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/navarro-warning-trump-coronavirus.

        We have more capable people, more capacity, and more resources than the WHO. Shame on us if we neglect our own considerable resources and blame others having less.

        Our best defense against this virus and others certain to arrive in the future is to work with other countries and seek solutions together. Countries and organizations blaming one another is nothing more than child's game to deflect accountability.

        We need to defeat this virus and get back on track, nationally and internationally. To do so requires coordination and working together both foreign and domestically.

        Comment


          #94
          CDC director warns winter wave of coronavirus could be more deadly

          https://www.axios.com/cdc-redfield-c...c2867bf04.html

          "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Robert Redfield warned in an interview with the Washington Post Tuesday that the second wave of the coronavirus this winter could be even more deadly due to its alignment with the start of flu season.

          Why it matters: Redfield urged state and federal officials to use this time to prepare by ramping up testing capacity and contact tracing. He also stressed the need for Americans to understand the importance of social distancing as states lift stay-at-home orders, calling protests against the restrictions "not helpful."

          Simultaneous respiratory outbreaks would heighten the demand for medical resources like ventilators and protective equipment, putting a tremendous strain on the health care system.

          Annual flu shots will also be increasingly important in order to minimize hospitalizations.

          What he's saying: "There’s a possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through. And when I’ve said this to others, they kind of put their head back, they don’t understand what I mean," Redfield told the Post.

          Flashback: The 2009 H1N1 swine flu pandemic had its first wave in the spring, but experienced a larger second wave in the fall and winter.

          The big picture: Redfield acknowledged the need for a massive testing and tracing effort, which public health experts agree is crucial for being able to reopen large parts of the country." End Quote

          Comment


            #95
            Tysabri is my DMT. It has the same immune suppressant characteristics as Ocrevus. When I did the telemedicine appointment with my Neuro I told him I thought I should wait and not take the risk.

            His opinion was that allowing the MS to progress was too big a risk. If I am late a week on my infusion the numbness and other symptoms start.

            So if you have started Ocrevus and are doing well why rock the boat.

            Everyone, take care of yourselves. Wear masks and continue to social distance in spite of the pressure to get the economy going again. We could save ourselves from Covid and not have an economy or we could save the economy and not be here to enjoy it.

            Take your pick.

            Comment


              #96
              Originally posted by Myoak View Post
              CDC director warns winter wave of coronavirus could be more deadly

              https://www.axios.com/cdc-redfield-c...c2867bf04.html

              "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Robert Redfield warned in an interview with the Washington Post Tuesday that the second wave of the coronavirus this winter could be even more deadly due to its alignment with the start of flu season.

              Why it matters: Redfield urged state and federal officials to use this time to prepare by ramping up testing capacity and contact tracing. He also stressed the need for Americans to understand the importance of social distancing as states lift stay-at-home orders, calling protests against the restrictions "not helpful."

              Simultaneous respiratory outbreaks would heighten the demand for medical resources like ventilators and protective equipment, putting a tremendous strain on the health care system.

              Annual flu shots will also be increasingly important in order to minimize hospitalizations.

              What he's saying: "There’s a possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through. And when I’ve said this to others, they kind of put their head back, they don’t understand what I mean," Redfield told the Post.

              Flashback: The 2009 H1N1 swine flu pandemic had its first wave in the spring, but experienced a larger second wave in the fall and winter.

              The big picture: Redfield acknowledged the need for a massive testing and tracing effort, which public health experts agree is crucial for being able to reopen large parts of the country." End Quote
              With a summer wave of new covid cases crashing upon many states it appears the public health experts were in correct agreement that massive testing and tracing would be crucial to reopening the economy. European countries following those procedure are reopening their economies much, much, much more safely than is the US which has no comparable national strategy.

              Many businesses and a couple of cities now require masks but masks and social distancing are being ignored by a large percentage of the population who believe like the President.

              Ignoring common sense safety practices is driving the summer wave of new cases, IMO.

              The fall wave of the pandemic will be much worse than what we have experienced thus far, if we refuse to learn. It amazes me that we don't have the sense to observe and try what is working in other countries to stem the pandemic.

              We all hope a vaccine will come to the rescue. We'll have to wait and see and hope for the best.

              Comment


                #97
                Everything will be ok.

                I just dont understand the logic behind closing everything down but still allowing protesters to assemble.

                A business owner can be made to operate at 25-50% capacity or close the doors and jeopardize their business but huge crowds are allowed to assemble in the street right outside those closed doors.

                Business owners should be allowed to open without any restrictions and we as Americans should be able to choose whether or not to patronize those businesses.

                I will not hide in my home and live in fear of the coronavirus boogeyman. I will train jiu jitsu, eat at restaurants and visit with friends as normal, without a mask.

                I won't be injecting any vaccines into my or my kids bodies either, just kifier, kombucha, veggies, steak and occasionally some blue bell. Keep it going.
                The future depends on what you do today.- Gandhi

                Comment


                  #98
                  My husband worked in public transit and retired early after losing 3 co-workers to covid-19 in April/early May. At least 3 others were hospitalized, one remains on oxygen. Of the 6, 3 had other high risk medical conditions and 2 died, 3 were perfectly healthy, and 1 died. This was all before masks were made mandatory here in public. We have heard that more contracted the virus, but recovered.

                  So Boudreaux, you may feel the virus is the Boogeyman. To us, it is a reality, and a nightmare

                  Remember everyone, there is a difference being inside versus outside. If not required where you live, please consider a mask in public, not for you, but for others you may spread it to if you are infected.

                  I do walk without a mask at a local park, but it is easy to social distance. Other than that, mask is on.

                  I have recently been informed if I go on vacation out of state, or attend any get togethers with people outside the house and not following masks/social distancing, then I need to quarantine for 14 days before next infusion. So my neuro is taking it serious.

                  Stay well all.
                  Kathy
                  DX 01/06, currently on Tysabri

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Not a boogeyman

                    I agree pennstaater. The virus is terrible and the risks are real. There was an excellent documentary on Frontline about Covid19 in Italy. It showed the horror the effects the virus has on the body and also the sacrifice of our healthcare workers many of whom died. But not just healthcare. There are so many who kept working to ensure food in the stores etc. risking their own lives. You have first hand experience with how terrible this is and I appreciate your post.

                    Just because someone doesn't know personally someone who was sick with the virus does not mean it isn't real. I am appalled at the people who are burying their heads in the sand about this. I wear a mask every day except when I am out in the park but I have it available at all times. It is NOT a big deal to wear it. It has now been politicized in the US which is very sad.

                    Comment


                      Thanks loopey..

                      Agree on the healthcare workers and essential workers. My niece is an ICU nurse. Their hospital went from 1 ICU unit with 1 back up, to 6 full time ICUs for months. She said it was really hard for her, and she has 12 years in critical care. She felt horrible for all the nurses who normally work other floors and were not used to losing some patients. They were used to people recovering and sending them home. She is concerned that some may have PTSD from it.

                      My brother works in a retail store that remained open here, as it was deemed essential. He was getting anxiety because people would come in with a mask on, then take it off to walk around. Some were not even respecting personal.space, let alone social distancing. People coming right up, tapping on a shoulder. Sad that people can't respect others.

                      I do keep my mask with me as well in the park, just in case. Stay well over there.
                      Kathy
                      DX 01/06, currently on Tysabri

                      Comment


                        My head is not buried in the sand, I am well aware of my surroundings. I know RN's and NP's who's hours have been cut, why would that happen during a pandemic?

                        There's some real shady reporting going on concerning the death rate. I've heard tale of people dying in car accidents who were tested post mortem return a positive and the death was counted as a covid stat. Follow the money, and watch out for the power grab. Freedom surrendered is never regained.

                        Everyone has the right to quarantine and you can wear a mask if you want, doesn't impact me one bit. If you're on a medication that suppresses your immune system or you have the comorbidities that have been identified then it is incumbent upon you to take the precautions necessary.

                        I may come across as insensitive but I'm not. I do respect people's personal space and stay my distance. Keep it going.
                        The future depends on what you do today.- Gandhi

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Boudreaux View Post
                          I know RN's and NP's who's hours have been cut, why would that happen during a pandemic?
                          Medical Facilities have taken a financial hit. They make their money on elective surgeries/procedures. Due to Covid-19 all elective surgeries/procedures were cancelled/postponed. So, RN's NP's hours were cut.

                          In the meantime the CEOs and Executives made sure they gave themselves very substantial raises. True statement, it happened here and was leaked to the news. Unfortunately, this is not uncommon in the Corporate world - layoffs happen but CEO's and executives receive substantial raise.
                          Diagnosed 1984
                          “Lightworkers aren’t here to avoid the darkness…they are here to transform the darkness through the illuminating power of love.” Muses from a mystic

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by SNOOPY View Post
                            Medical Facilities have taken a financial hit. They make their money on elective surgeries/procedures. Due to Covid-19 all elective surgeries/procedures were cancelled/postponed. So, RN's NP's hours were cut.

                            In the meantime the CEOs and Executives made sure they gave themselves very substantial raises. True statement, it happened here and was leaked to the news. Unfortunately, this is not uncommon in the Corporate world - layoffs happen but CEO's and executives receive substantial raise.
                            Sadly, truer words were never spoken. When financial companies were bailed out with hundreds of billions of dollars due the crisis they helped create during 2008-09, CEOs rewarded themselves with millions of dollars in bonuses. When the history of the covid era is studied it is likely to show the same... failed companies bailed out and CEO's paying themselves bonuses in millions of dollars. Corporations don't believe in socialism for people but they sure do for corporations. We always have to bail them out. I do not wish to argue for or against socialism; I'm observing what appears to be a consistent relationship between corporations and our government of the people, by the people and for the people.

                            On another point more relevant to health and being prepared come fall and winter...

                            "COVID-19 is likely to be a seasonal disease that recurs in periods of lower humidity. We need to be thinking if it's winter time, it could be COVID-19 time," said Professor Ward."

                            COVID-19 could be a seasonal illness with higher risk in winter
                            Reduced humidity linked to increased COVID-19 risk

                            Date: June 2, 2020

                            Source: University of Sydney

                            Summary:
                            A study conducted in Sydney, Australia, during the early epidemic stage of COVID-19 has found an association between lower humidity and an increase in locally acquired positive cases. Researchers discovered a 1 percent decrease in humidity could increase the number of COVID-19 cases by 6 percent.

                            https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0601134608.htm

                            Comment


                              Real people are dying from covid. I have immediate family members that currently have covid. That said...

                              The media is using this and every other "breaking news story" to further their agendas, keep eyes glued to TV sets and to generate additional advertising revenue.

                              Our national leaders are also using covid as covering to try and implement wish list items that normally would never be considered. It's evil.

                              The contrqdictions-
                              How many different versions of mask theories have we heard? Masks don't work. Masks work. Only N95 masks work. Use a bandana or scarf as a mask. Masks are mandatory. Masks at Walmart work, but not in churches. Protestors and looters don't need masks, but masks are mandatory at outdoor swimming pools.

                              Here's a few realities:
                              - Most people don't even know how to properly use masks
                              - People are using single use masks repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly
                              - The virus is small enough to pass through the holes in your mask.
                              - If you shutdown the economy long enough you'll force the country into a long-term recession that will kill more people than covid.
                              - A vaccine may be YEARS away and then only marginally effective (like the flu vaccine).
                              - Covid is liberally being listed as the cause of deaths for heart attacks and other causes.
                              - YOU NEED TO HAVE HERD EXPOSURE TO ATTAIN HERD IMMUNITY.

                              Me?
                              I do wear a mask while out and about because you can't even buy groceries without them.

                              Since this whole thing started I mostly shelter in place, venturing out for groceries and medical appointments that cannot be done virtually.

                              I practice social distancing, wash my hands, etc, because it's the prudent thing to do.

                              I do not live in fear or have anxiety over covid. Many thousands of more people will die, millions more infected, but that's all the more reason to be grateful for today and live in the present. Tomorrow is not guaranteed for anyone... with or without covid.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Marco View Post
                                Since this whole thing started I mostly shelter in place, venturing out for groceries and medical appointments that cannot be done virtually.

                                I practice social distancing, wash my hands, etc, because it's the prudent thing to do.

                                I do not live in fear or have anxiety over covid. Many thousands of more people will die, millions more infected, but that's all the more reason to be grateful for today and live in the present. Tomorrow is not guaranteed for anyone... with or without covid.
                                I wish more people were following your example.

                                I believe people need to change behavior in order to reduce the impact covid is having on our health and our economy. What I have been seeing here locally in NW Ohio is more and more people disregarding common sense practices which most experts agree help reduce covid infections. I see fewer and fewer people wearing masks and staying 6 feet apart when shopping, protesting, or just out having fun.

                                To me, it is extremely concerning that increasing numbers of people are changing behavior but in the wrong direction. We are tired of isolating, continually disinfecting, wearing masks, washing hands, and keeping safe distances but as we abandon those practices more infections result leading to more hospitalizations, financial strains, and all the problems covid is causing.

                                At this point in time we have no idea if herd immunity will work against covid-19. We don’t know if having antibodies to the virus can protect us from getting infected again or how long we have immunity if antibodies do protect us.

                                Having a spouse on Ocrevus complicates deliberations even further because of a case report on a PwMS on Ocrevus who got covid, recovered but still had not developed antibodies leading some neuros to speculate that perhaps, those on Ocrevus are made incapable of developing antibodies to covid-19 by Ocrevus. Other neuros hypothesize a person on Ocrevus or a similar drug may develop antibodies if a window of time can be identified between doses when the immune system has recovered sufficient function to be capable of developing covid antibodies.

                                Obviously, this is critically important to Ocrevus patients because even if a vaccine becomes available it is useless to Ocrevus users if they cannot, or do not develop covid 19 antibodies.


                                Personally, I am in the camp of believing someone on Ocrevus can develop covid antibodies if they are far enough away, timewise, from the last infusion that immune cells diminished by Ocrevus have re-populated. I have no evidence but the theory makes sense to me.

                                The covid virus has complicated an already very complicated treatment situation with MS patients. I believe it can only help if we talk about what we are thinking, what informs our thinking, and possible courses of action, individual as they necessarily are.

                                We are learning much collectively and individually. And, there is much more to learn about this virus and how best to manage it.

                                I suspect if we could spend enough time with each other we would discover a great deal about each other we enjoy, admire, and respect.

                                At the heart of what drives everyone is the goal of doing what is best for us individually and as a society, Someone once said civilization is the slow process of learning to be kind. I believe that is true.

                                Comment

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