Sorry to bring up insomnia again...

[marti]

...but this course is getting ridiculous! I haven't had more than 2 hours of sleep every night for weeks now. Last night was a total washout. I took 2 Benadryls and a quarter of an Ambien. No luck. None. Not a minute!

I've struggled with insomnia for years, but never like this. Unrelenting, persistent, brutal nights without any sleep. My chest hurts, my body is drained, my mind is mush. I've messaged with my neuro and he refuses to order any meds. He's so afraid that I will fall or have an accident because I am 68. I swear to you and to him, I have never, never had any reactions to the few meds that I took for this problem. No prob with Ambien, Clonazepam, Temazepam, Xanax. It's the otc stuff that kind of bothers me. First of all, they don't work. I'm going on 3 solid days of taking Unisom and the Benadryl products and I'm barely even drowsy. I'm exhausted in every way, but that's just from the lack of sleep. The meds have not affected me at all. I took half of an Ambien an hour ago and still... nothing. It's like my body is blocking the intended effects.

I have also tried the Essential oils, room sprays, colored lights, laying on the couch with the tv on.... all the things that used to give me some relief. I read, I walk the floors. The biggest problem is that I can't turn off my thoughts. They roll around, keeping me "alert" and awake.

Here is part of our conversation: Behavior modification therapy has been recommended as a useful adjunct in treating psychophysiologic insomnia.
Would there be any interest in going to Burrell Behavioral Health for training in behavior modification for psychophysiologic insomnia (the condition of ruminiation, many thoughts during the time of trying to go to sleep). I might try this as a last resort, but only after I finish the physical therapy I am getting right now for an impingement problem. I can't possibly handle 2 separate therapies at once. That would be like becoming a professional patient.

I'm begging you... if anyone has any thoughts on this... any suggestions.. any personal experiences please let me know. This is pure toture.

[Seasha]

Dear Marti - I feel for you. I'm up every 3 hours in the night and sometimes read too, but I DO fall back to sleep. Have you ever thought of having a sleep study done? Maybe with the results, better help can be offered.

Sorry, I have no other suggestions.

[marti]

Dear Marti - I feel for you. I'm up every 3 hours in the night and sometimes read too, but I DO fall back to sleep. Have you ever thought of having a sleep study done? Maybe with the results, better help can be offered.

Sorry, I have no other suggestions.

How does a sleep study work? Thanks for listening.

[Carlyle]

Have you tried melatonin?

...but this course is getting ridiculous! I haven't had more than 2 hours of sleep every night for weeks now. Last night was a total washout. I took 2 Benadryls and a quarter of an Ambien. No luck. None. Not a minute!

I've struggled with insomnia for years, but never like this. Unrelenting, persistent, brutal nights without any sleep. My chest hurts, my body is drained, my mind is mush. I've messaged with my neuro and he refuses to order any meds. He's so afraid that I will fall or have an accident because I am 68. I swear to you and to him, I have never, never had any reactions to the few meds that I took for this problem. No prob with Ambien, Clonazepam, Temazepam, Xanax. It's the otc stuff that kind of bothers me. First of all, they don't work. I'm going on 3 solid days of taking Unisom and the Benadryl products and I'm barely even drowsy. I'm exhausted in every way, but that's just from the lack of sleep. The meds have not affected me at all. I took half of an Ambien an hour ago and still... nothing. It's like my body is blocking the intended effects.

I have also tried the Essential oils, room sprays, colored lights, laying on the couch with the tv on.... all the things that used to give me some relief. I read, I walk the floors. The biggest problem is that I can't turn off my thoughts. They roll around, keeping me "alert" and awake.

Here is part of our conversation: Behavior modification therapy has been recommended as a useful adjunct in treating psychophysiologic insomnia.
Would there be any interest in going to Burrell Behavioral Health for training in behavior modification for psychophysiologic insomnia (the condition of ruminiation, many thoughts during the time of trying to go to sleep). I might try this as a last resort, but only after I finish the physical therapy I am getting right now for an impingement problem. I can't possibly handle 2 separate therapies at once. That would be like becoming a professional patient.

I'm begging you... if anyone has any thoughts on this... any suggestions.. any personal experiences please let me know. This is pure toture.

Marti,have you tried melatonin? I just started this about 4 days ago.It seems to work.Yes it is otc, hopefully it works

[marti]

Marti,have you tried melatonin? I just started this about 4 days ago.It seems to work.Yes it is otc, hopefully it works

I've tried Melatonin in several forms. No luck. I really have to believe this little trick of nature must be caused by a pesky little lesion. I'm out of ideas.

[Seasha]

How does a sleep study work? Thanks for listening.

I've never had one done, but here's an article describing how it works https://www.sleepfoundation.org/exce...eep-study-work

And this about diagnosing insomnia - https://www.sleepfoundation.org/insomnia/diagnosis

I imagine you'd need a sleep Doctor's referral to have this done, but you might want to start with your pcp? I'm not sure. But I found this:

"A sleep doctor is a medical doctor who has additional special training in sleep medicine. Typically, the doctor is primarily trained in internal medicine, pulmonology or neurology and then completed additional training in sleep medicine. In order to be boarded (ie: certified or credentialed) in sleep medicine, the doctor must pass a rigorous exam (you can check the certification of a doctor on the American Board of Internal Medicine site)."

I hope this helps and you consider having a study done.

What do you have to lose? (besides more sleepless nights!)

[polopuppy]

I agree that you should have a sleep study done after seeing a Sleep Disorder Specialist. There could be any number of issues causing you not to sleep. You could have Obstructive Sleep Apnea or Central Sleep Apnea or a combination of the two. I have Complex Sleep Disorder and wear a BiPAP machine. I wasn't getting any sleep before I was diagnosed.

For my sleep study, I spent the night in the sleep lab from 8 pm-6 am. Some facilities do home sleep studies but those can only monitor the basics. The technician will place a bunch of wires and electrodes on you and then you will go to sleep when you are ready. Video cameras record your sleep, the position you sleep in, movements and even sleep walking. If the monitors show sleep apnea, you will be awakened and a CPAP machine will be placed on you half way through the night. The doctor will have you return for a visit about 2 weeks after your sleep study to go over the results.

Since you seem to have an idea of what is causing your insomnia, seeking help from a Sleep Psychologist would be a good idea, although your insomnia could be multifactorial. I frequently suffer from pain-somnia but Nortriptyline has helped immensely. Many people have terrible restless leg syndrome but have no idea.

Have you tried Mindful Meditation? It works really well for me when I can't quiet my mind. Alexa has several free meditations available. Sleep hygiene is very important too and includes having a cold, dark room, no TV or computer, avoiding daytime napping, etc.

[Boudreaux]

Sleep study is a great idea.

How about CBD oil? It seems to help me.

What about MMJ? Is it legal in your state? Do you have an objection to using it?

[Carlyle]

A

Marti,do you exercise?A little bit will help

[Carolinemf]

Hi Marti,

sorry you're still having problems

Lately my own sleep has been erratic - but i think i can get things back to normal if i return to my 'routine'. It is tough though.

I have taken Polaramine (dexchlorpheniramine maleate 1- 2mg)with Valium (diazapam 2.5-5mg)
at a fixed time each night for several years now and this helped me a lot.
These aren't supposed to be taken together but alone they don't work. A doc recommended this to me.
Polaramine is aussie it may be called Polytussin(?) in states.
Benedryl doesn't even make me sleepy at any time.
'Traditional' sleeping pills leave me too hung over the next day(can't function) and do nothing to ease the leg cramps at night.

Boudreaux also has a point though. we have to be physically tired.

You used to care for sam . . This may mean that you physically have less to do now he's gone.
Exercise , especially outside can also help to quiet the mind or i prefer to think of it as gaining focus on something rather than my mind randomly wandering on multiple subjects as it pleases.
An activity also gives me a reason to get out of bed the next day.
I seem to get 'lost' both mentally and physically if i live without purpose -by choice or circumstance.

So i have found that taking my drugs and doing stuff works best for me.

Hope things improve.
Keep us updated

[loopey]

Hi Marti,
I am so sorry you have this problem. I wake up every 1 to 2 hours every night. I then take melatonin with valerian and it helps me fall back to sleep. I was using Valium, 5 mg. but my doctor won't give it to me any more.

Insomnia is a horrible thing and I actually dread going to bed at night. I hope you find something to help you. Please let us know if/when you do!

[Golgotha]

Looking through the responses, folks have listed out the ones I've done except valium.

I had problems at times falling asleep, but the bigger problem was the duration: only about 4hrs or less of sleep at a time. My neuro suggested valium but was reluctant. After more melatonin did not work he prescribed it. I don't like the addictive danger of it so I used it only sporadically. 2 things about it hit home with me:

(1) It worked well. It didn't work at all to solve the duration problem but I definitely had no problems falling asleep.

(2) I started dreaming again! This sounds weird, but I cannot remember having a dream for about 10 or 15 years -- long enough that it was no big deal. I may or may not have been having them, but I could never remember one.

But valium started me dreaming so I could definitely remember dreaming. And -- first time in my life -- I had what's described as a lucid dream. Only one, but that was shocking. That change in me alone was worth eating the valium for (I cannot attribute the change to anything else). But since my sleep issues have dissipated, I'm not eating valiums as frequently and thus are not having as many dreams.

[Carolinemf]

Yep , just wanted to add.

Docs (new or relieving) hate prescribing valiam because its ""ADDICTIVE"" .
Honestly who cares! I have a chronic illness and the fact is that utilising these 2 drugs together in a purposeful way has remedied the need for many others.
When first prescribed about 10 years ago i had been having sleeping issues for years and wasn't coping very well with either that or the spasticity/cramping.
i had run the gauntlet of short term sleep aids and meds for the spasticity without success.
in some cases they made things worse because of the hangover effect.
When an 80yr old doc suggested this to me and it worked i got my life back again.
I was certainly easier to live with.

My regular doc, who knows me, knows i don't over use anything.
He trusts me to 'manage things.
My neuro doesn't either.
They share all info.
I have also consulted with a pharmacist and he had no real problems with the regime as long as it 1)was working to alleviate the problems it was prescribed for and
2)pills weren't randomly being 'popped'

Golgotha you are so right about the dreaming.
I hadn't dreamt in many years.
as soon as i began taking 'my regime' i dreamt and slept sounder and longer.
I now think i hadn't had any REM sleep for a very long time.
I really notice if i deviate from my routine and don't dream now.
i feel very heavy and hungover the next day.

Taking polaramine alone makes falling asleep a bit easier though unless i am stressing over something this was only an intermittent problem.
But i wake up roughly 2 hrs later with brain on high alert having not dreamt and unable to go back to sleep.

taking valium alone doesn't make me sleepy enough to put me out to it but i feel drugged all the next day and can nod off on the drop of a hat.
This usually would mean i would have trouble sleeping the next night.
I have tried increasing and lightening the dose with unsatisfactory results.

So neither drug alone remedied a long term chronic problem.
because ms and spasticty isn't going to go away i need a long term solution so i am happy enough to be addicted to 2.5 to 5 mg of Valium each night.
Like i said -WHO CARES!!

This may not be your solution.
but i hope you find one soon Marti.

[marti]

Yep , just wanted to add.

Docs (new or relieving) hate prescribing valiam because its ""ADDICTIVE"" .
Honestly who cares! I have a chronic illness and the fact is that utilising these 2 drugs together in a purposeful way has remedied the need for many others.
When first prescribed about 10 years ago i had been having sleeping issues for years and wasn't coping very well with either that or the spasticity/cramping.
i had run the gauntlet of short term sleep aids and meds for the spasticity without success.
in some cases they made things worse because of the hangover effect.
When an 80yr old doc suggested this to me and it worked i got my life back again.
I was certainly easier to live with.

My regular doc, who knows me, knows i don't over use anything.
He trusts me to 'manage things.
My neuro doesn't either.
They share all info.
I have also consulted with a pharmacist and he had no real problems with the regime as long as it 1)was working to alleviate the problems it was prescribed for and
2)pills weren't randomly being 'popped'

Golgotha you are so right about the dreaming.
I hadn't dreamt in many years.
as soon as i began taking 'my regime' i dreamt and slept sounder and longer.
I now think i hadn't had any REM sleep for a very long time.
I really notice if i deviate from my routine and don't dream now.
i feel very heavy and hungover the next day.

Taking polaramine alone makes falling asleep a bit easier though unless i am stressing over something this was only an intermittent problem.
But i wake up roughly 2 hrs later with brain on high alert having not dreamt and unable to go back to sleep.

taking valium alone doesn't make me sleepy enough to put me out to it but i feel drugged all the next day and can nod off on the drop of a hat.
This usually would mean i would have trouble sleeping the next night.
I have tried increasing and lightening the dose with unsatisfactory results.

So neither drug alone remedied a long term chronic problem.
because ms and spasticty isn't going to go away i need a long term solution so i am happy enough to be addicted to 2.5 to 5 mg of Valium each night.
Like i said -WHO CARES!!

This may not be your solution.
but i hope you find one soon Marti.

Right on sister! Who cares? Not my neuro!

[marti]

Hi Marti,
I am so sorry you have this problem. I wake up every 1 to 2 hours every night. I then take melatonin with valerian and it helps me fall back to sleep. I was using Valium, 5 mg. but my doctor won't give it to me any more.

Insomnia is a horrible thing and I actually dread going to bed at night. I hope you find something to help you. Please let us know if/when you do!

Loopey are you taking a sleep aid every night? I've been on one thing or another for years and it bothers me that I am dependent on meds every day. This can't be good. Are most insomniacs treated with meds??