Does it feel like arthritis too?

[poeticsoul]

I am wondering if spasticity can also feel like arthritis? As in-stiff, achy joints?

Because my fingers and toes are very stiff and achy a lot lately.

2 nights ago, while walking into my bedroom to go to bed, I actually felt my left toes go all weird, for lack of a better explanation. lol

The second smallest toe and the middle toe, separated away from the others and felt very stiff.
They are still a bit weird feeling now but not as bad as that night, but my fingers often hurt so much and feel so stiff, as they do right now.

Thanks.
Cathy

[Karenkay]

I get stiff, painful achy fingers and just general pain in my hands. Dr neuro says I should see a Rheumatologist. He was not even willing to suggest it might be ms.

[SNOOPY]

Hi poeticsoul,

In a general sense, when speaking about joint stiffness Arthritis would be the first consideration. Anti-inflammatories (over-the-counter and prescription) can be helpful for Arthritis and are prescribed for it.

Over the counter Anti-inflammatories (Advil, Tylenol, ect.) or prescription anti-inflammatories (Naproxen, Meloxicam, ect.) will not help stiffness/pain associated with Spasticity.

So, if you take an anti-inflammatory and get relief then more than likely what you are experiencing is not due to Spasticity.

Spasticity is treated with muscle relaxers.

[jreagan70]

I have both spasticity and osteoarthritis, particularly arthritis in my hands, and in my case the two feel very different.

My spasticity feels very distinctly like muscle cramps or muscle stiffness that doesn't affect my joints -- arms, legs, hands or feet -- at all. It feels like muscles cramping or pulling, not like the joints are locked up or stiff or achy.

My arthritis, on the other hand, is very distinctly in my joints. The feeling of joint stiffness and pain feels like the joints themselves are locked up and achy even without movement and doesn't feel at all like muscle cramping or pulling.

I can appreciate why it might be hard to tell the difference between muscle stiffness and joint stiffness in hands and feet, where there are so many joints so close together. But if you picture spasticity happening where there aren't so many joints and the muscles and joints are larger, it might be easier to distinguish between the two.

Imagine that you have a cramp in a bicep that pulls your forearm upward. If you straighten your arm, the stiffness you feel and will be pulling against will be in your bicep muscle and not inside your elbow joint, and your bicep will hurt. That's spasticity. Now imagine that your elbow feels stiff no matter which way you move it, and the actual joint aches even if you aren't moving it, and you don't particularly feel any muscles pulling. That's more of what arthritis feels like.

(As an aside, some people with MS who have severe spasticity have incurred mechanical joint damage from the muscle spasticity pulling the joints out of alignment over time. That's obviously not what's going on here.)

Having toes pull away from the others and feel stiff sounds like spasticity. Arthritis doesn't cause fingers or toes to pull away from each other. It sounds like your assessment of spasticity is good, but, if you don't have actual arthritis to compare it to, your comparison to arthritis stiffness might be a bit off.

MS is not a disease of joints. So if you feel like your actual joints are stiff and achy, that's not directly MS and it should be evaluated by your doctor. It isn't unusual for more than one autoimmune disease to occur in one person. So if you have a rheumatologist, it's something to discuss with him/her. If you haven't seen a rheumatologist, it might be worthwhile to be evaluated by one.

[kmathis]

spasicity

Temp changes can cause cramping. I almost always get toe cramps at the grocery store when I am shopping in the summer in flip flops. Even at home if cold air hits them they will cramp up. Lotion and massage is about all you can do at the moment it occurs. If I am at the store or in my car, I will step on the cramped toes and hold them down until they lay flat. I find making sure I have enough Vitamin D, Iron and Potassium will lessen the duration of spasms.

[poeticsoul]

Thanks all.
Yes, I DO have OA-Osteoarthritis and take diclofenac-an NSAID, and no, it is not helping this stiffness/pain I am talking about.
I'm getting more and more muscle stiffness/cramping.
My appointment at the MS Center is a week from tomorrow...guess, I will get more answers then or soon after.

[KevsLuv]

Joint pain

I have awful joint pain in my knees, hip and ankle. I've been told over and over that it's not the MS. But then they just stop there--no matter what the cause, I would like some relief! The rheumatology referral I sought was rejected due to my labs being negative ANA.

How do they diagnose osteoarthritis? I feel like I learn more from you guys than I do from my doctor sometimes.

[SNOOPY]

How do they diagnose osteoarthritis?

X-rays will show arthritis.

[jreagan70]

I have awful joint pain in my knees, hip and ankle. I've been told over and over that it's not the MS.

That's correct. MS is a disease of the central nervous system, not of joints.

MS can cause impaired nerve signals to muscles. Then, if muscles aren't working properly, other muscles have to compensate, and joints can be pulled out of alignment, causing osteoarthritis. But MS itself isn't causing the arthritis.

You might ask for a referral to a physiatrist to have your gait, muscle function and joint alignment evaluated.

The rheumatology referral I sought was rejected due to my labs being negative ANA. ... How do they diagnose osteoarthritis?

As pointed out by poster Snoopy, osteoarthritis is diagnosed with the help of X-rays. You don't need a rheumatologist for osteoarthritis.

Your primary care doctor can order X-rays. Are you saying that you had a blood test for ANA but you haven't had simple X-rays? What has your primary care doc said about your joint pain? Has s/he not recommended or prescribed pain relievers?

Depending on what X-rays show, you might or might not benefit from seeing an orthopedist. Seeing a physiatrist is still a good idea.

[slckjebw]

I was diagnosed with M.S. in 2008 and Osteoarthritis this July. I can tell the difference between the two pains. Arthritis pain make my joints feel like they have been hit by a hammer. I have Arthritis in my neck, lower back, hip and knee. No fun at all!
I go twice a week for Aqua therapy. Helps both my M.S. and arthritis.

[KevsLuv]

That's correct. MS is a disease of the central nervous system, not of joints.

MS can cause impaired nerve signals to muscles. Then, if muscles aren't working properly, other muscles have to compensate, and joints can be pulled out of alignment, causing osteoarthritis. But MS itself isn't causing the arthritis.

You might ask for a referral to a physiatrist to have your gait, muscle function and joint alignment evaluated.



As pointed out by poster Snoopy, osteoarthritis is diagnosed with the help of X-rays. You don't need a rheumatologist for osteoarthritis.

Your primary care doctor can order X-rays. Are you saying that you had a blood test for ANA but you haven't had simple X-rays? What has your primary care doc said about your joint pain? Has s/he not recommended or prescribed pain relievers?

Depending on what X-rays show, you might or might not benefit from seeing an orthopedist. Seeing a physiatrist is still a good idea.

Since I last posted, my primary care doc has prescribed diclofenac which hasn't offered any relief. When I asked about osteoarthritis he said that is highly unlikely due to my age even though I told him there is family history. So, yes, I have had the ANA screening but no xray.

The pain is getting so bad that I will be going on leave from work for a while. Hopefully I can get this all figured out and begin to treat it effectively in the coming weeks.

[SNOOPY]

When I asked about osteoarthritis he said that is highly unlikely due to my age even though I told him there is family history.

I'm not sure how old you are but I am going to strongly disagree with your Dr. I was in my mid twenties when I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knees and had been dealing with it for quite a few years before mentioning it to my Dr. You may want to find a Dr. who doesn't consider your age when deciding if you have arthritis or not.

[KevsLuv]

I'm not sure how old you are but I am going to strongly disagree with your Dr. I was in my mid twenties when I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knees and had been dealing with it for quite a few years before mentioning it to my Dr. You may want to find a Dr. who doesn't consider your age when deciding if you have arthritis or not.

I turned 30 this year. My grandma was in her mid thirties when she was diagnosed...I do need a new doctor though. I'm in so much pain and he doesn't know how to help me. I'm lucky to have an awesome neurologist who picks up his slack but she can't do everything!

Thanks for the info!

[tinglytoes]

Since I last posted, my primary care doc has prescribed diclofenac which hasn't offered any relief. When I asked about osteoarthritis he said that is highly unlikely due to my age even though I told him there is family history. So, yes, I have had the ANA screening but no xray.

The pain is getting so bad that I will be going on leave from work for a while. Hopefully I can get this all figured out and begin to treat it effectively in the coming weeks.

I am a little late to this game - but I was diagnosed this year with something called Palindromic Rheumatism. I have a slightly elevated RF but I have this pain that travels rapidly from joint to joint (although, lately it has been staying put in my shoulders and knees)... you should a referral to a rheumatologist and have a conversation with them regarding your pain. This isn't something you should suffer with!!

[walkingalone]

Rheumatoid arthritis and arthritis in systemic lupus arthritis in the fingers is typically symmetrical (both hands equally affected) and worse in the morning - stiffness improves through the day. Arthritis usually also cause some obvious swelling and redness over the knuckles.