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FP187 vs BG-12

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    FP187 vs BG-12

    Everyone seems to be focused on BG-12, anyone have any thoughts on FP187?

    #2
    I don't really have many thoughts about a medicine that hasn't even been submitted to the FDA for approval yet. And if its based on the same drug as BG-12 I don't understand how it will catch up after BG-12 is approved. It will have to be different like Avonex and Rebif are different even though they're the same drug. But if it isn't any better than BG-12 I think we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

    I think good for us that there are now many DMDs to choose from but maybe bad for FP187 because by the time it gets approved there may already bee too many DMDs for us to choose from without a particular reason to pick FP 187. Just because its an oral medicine might not be enough to make people choose it if it isn't any better than the other oral drugs already available. The MS market already isn't very big and I think it will have to be a pretty spectacular medicine to get enough people to take it over the DMDs already out there.

    ** Moderator's note - Post broken into paragraphs for easier reading. Many people with MS have visual difficulties that prevent them from reading large blocks of print. **

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      #3
      Lets see..

      If there is an approved DMF drug for psoriasis in the US, how soon will it be before people are using it off-label instead of very expensive BG-12?

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        #4
        $$$ TALKS

        The reason why they all stay competitive is $$$. I'm seeing it now with Rebif who is already getting scared. They are offering a new injector with med inside it and offering zero out-of-pocket co-pay. So Rebif is getting scared about BG-12 and copaxone...well we all know what TIVA has done to secure some more time with their users of copaxone before they jump ship for BG-12.

        So BG-12's competition will come offering the same thing but cheaper or zero co-pay or other extras. Lets just start with seeing to it that the FDA doesn't keep answering to TIVA and other Big Pharma. and gives BG-12 to the people. It has gone through enough trials, so much positive data it is ready!
        I left in love, in laughter, and in truth, and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

        Bill Hicks

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          #5
          Originally posted by Prayers for rain View Post
          If there is an approved DMF drug for psoriasis in the US, how soon will it be before people are using it off-label instead of very expensive BG-12?
          I think that if there's an approved DMF drug for psoriasis the company will have to go thru all of the same clinical trials and approvals that BG-12 has to go thru for MS so it might cost just as much as BG-12. A DMF medicine might not be that much cheaper because it still has to earn back the money it cost to develop it and get it approved. I think maybe it might cost less but it probably still won't be cheap. The medicines used now for psoriasis already have some competition and they're all still expensive.

          And off label doesn't mean less expensive. Rituxan costs the same for MS as it does for RA and cancer. Lyrica costs the same for MS as it does for diabetes and fibromyalgia. If FP187 gets approved for psoriasis it might not be any cheaper for people with MS to use than BG-12.

          And I think too that Biogen already has a head start if they want to get BG-12 approved for psoriasis. When BG-12 is approved for MS IT can start being used off label for psoriasis before FP187 even gets to the FDA. If their medicine is already for sale I'm not sure Biogen has too much to worry about from a new one coming out later if it isn't any better or cheaper. I think we will maybe get a clue about how worried Biogen is about another DMF drug being approved for psoriasis and taking away its off label psoriasis business by whether they try to get it approved for psoriasis first. If they do they already have a lot of clinical information they learned from the MS trials that the other company doesn't have. Head start there too.

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            #6
            I don't mind that a biotech firm uses their resources to bring a product to market. Whatever they spend their money on to get trial data is fine by me, as long as they don't mess with the data or fudge the results or play dirty tricks to slow competitive products coming to market. It seems that Teva is playing a game with BG-12 being thought of as a 'bona fide' competitor.

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              #7
              durgastiger- What is it that Copaxone is doing? I am curious!
              Newbie

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                #8
                Originally posted by newbie but goodie View Post
                durgastiger- What is it that Copaxone is doing? I am curious!
                If I understand correctly from what I have read, TIVA (the maker of Copaxone) filed something with the FDA relating to what they believed to be a problem with BG-12.

                Whether the issue they raised was based on any facts I don't know, but the belief by many, is that TIVA wanted to delay the approval of BG-12 by their competitor (Biogen) since it is likely to take a big bite out of their Copaxone user base.

                Supposedly protecting their profits at the expense of people waiting for the release of BG-12. Big business at it's worst...

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by ggnutsc View Post
                  If I understand correctly from what I have read, TIVA (the maker of Copaxone) filed something with the FDA relating to what they believed to be a problem with BG-12.
                  Copaxone is made by Teva. What if Teva isn't the bad guy? What if Biogen is trying to cover up a problem with BG-12 so it will get approved faster? Shouldn't we know about that?

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by MSer102 View Post
                    Copaxone is made by Teva. What if Teva isn't the bad guy? What if Biogen is trying to cover up a problem with BG-12 so it will get approved faster? Shouldn't we know about that?
                    Absolutely!! I was simply stating what actions were taken, and what some believe the motivation might be for taking that action. Hence the statement I made about about whether it is based on fact or not.

                    I'm not going to speculate whether they have a legit honest reason for filing a concern with the FDA. But the question was asked why the copaxone people were involved in the BG-12 delay, so I offered a brief summary of what I have read, and what has been alleged by many.

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                      #11
                      I was thinking more of this.
                      Lets just start with seeing to it that the FDA doesn't keep answering to TIVA and other Big Pharma. and gives BG-12 to the people. It has gone through enough trials, so much positive data it is ready!
                      I always get worried when people start seeing conspiracies when there isn't enough information to know and start believing that we're all entitled to things just because they exist. Unless we have inside information I agree that we don't know what's in Teva's complaint and we don't have any way to know if BG-12 has "gone through enough trials". I think that making BG-12 into something that "must be given to the people" turns it into a political issue and not a medical issue - like "anybody who keeps me from having something I want is wrong". The hype and the expectation it builds up doesn't make it good medicine.

                      If we don't know the facts we don't have any way to know who or what is wrong. So I'm wondering what if Teva isn't the bad guy? Biogen is in business to make money just like Teva is. What if they're the ones who are keeping information from us so they can make money? Medicines get pulled from the market all the time because they were approved without enough testing or the right kind of testing or even because test data showing problems were kept quiet and they killed people. How do we know Biogen isnt the bad guy just because they have something that people want?

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by newbie but goodie View Post
                        durgastiger- What is it that Copaxone is doing? I am curious!
                        Teva, the distributor of Copaxone has been spending a lot of time, money and resources seeing to it that the FDA slows the release of BG-12. Any and all articles you read about BG-12 dates being pushed back you will see TEVA attached to it.

                        Rebif decided not to go that route but now offers 0 out of pocket co-pay and a new auto injector with medication inside.

                        The funny thing is these are the 2 big players in M.S. treatment with no new R&D in the pipe-line for new treatments. They have been sucking off the proverbial teet for long enough with no innovation.

                        If these 2 med developers won't keep up with the amount of R&D happening they need to cash out and get out of the way!
                        I left in love, in laughter, and in truth, and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

                        Bill Hicks

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by ggnutsc View Post
                          If I understand correctly from what I have read, TIVA (the maker of Copaxone) filed something with the FDA relating to what they believed to be a problem with BG-12.
                          Yes! You said it!

                          I was on Copaxone when I heard they were doing this I went to Rebif! The balls of my Neurologists to recommend Copaxone when I had mentioned other med options until BG-12 came out!

                          These old horse treatments need to be taken out to pasture and shot! If you are taking money from the CDC and FDA and other sources for R&D and nothing new to offer. Get out of the way of progress you old horses. Your race is over!
                          I left in love, in laughter, and in truth, and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

                          Bill Hicks

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