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Vit D - How much is too much? Where does all that extra (not absorbed) Vit D go?

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    #16
    JerryD - Sorry for my snippiness, my communication skills and ability to get my point across suffers and I get impatient with myself (and others). I think what I was really trying to get at is doesn't it make more sense ( much more sense) to figure out how to get the body to more efficiently absorb Vit D rather than just throwing more and more Vit D at the target until you get the right amount stick?
    M.
    A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
    Albert Einstein

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      #17
      P.S. My Vit D level is 16, last December it was 18. I get outside everyday (walking the dog), I drink D fortified skim milk and I drink the little kid orange juice that has Vit D and I was begrugingly taking a multi-vitamin. I have now added 1000mg D3 gummis 2X a day.

      I (and my sister) remember that I had to take cod liver oil when I was ~3 or 4 because my legs were getting bowed. It worked because my legs turned out perfectly straight.
      M.
      A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
      Albert Einstein

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        #18
        Hi maitrimama and Cat Mom:
        The critical characteristic of vitamin D is that, because it's fat soluble, the excess does not get excreted but is stored in the body, with the potential to build up to toxic levels if the intake isn't controlled. (Hypervitaminosis occurs only with supplementation of vitamin D; the body controls conversion of sunlight to vitamin D so that the body doesn't convert more than is needed.)

        The maximum recommended level for vitamin D is around 100 ng/ml, but the medical literature indicates that toxicity doesn't usually occur until the level is at least twice that. At toxic levels, the problems don't come just from the vitamin D itself, but also from what the high level does to other processes -- in particular the kidney damage and abnormal calcium metabolism.

        In people with normal metabolisms and common sense , a toxic level of vitamin D is rarely reached.

        However, vitamin D level can become an issue in people whose metabolisms aren't normal. Even normal levels can be problematic when there are other genetic and chemical factors in play.

        maitrimama, it sounds like the latter is the case for you. And because of that, the usual guidelines don't apply to you. So for your own peace of mind , you might reconsider whether you're getting any benefit from following vitamin D discussions in an MS forum, and see, instead, if there might be more useful information for you in a kidney/kidney stone forum.

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          #19
          Hey... no harm, no foul. In my working days, I have been shot at, spit on etc., so a little 'snippyness' is no problem. It's almost expected!! Look.. I have asked these vitamin D and calcium questions of medical people many times. I am not a doctor.

          I asked something of a similar question of my doctor and he told me that calcium absorption is related to vitamin D levels. Kidney stones are a result of low vitamin D and insufficient calcium absorption. So any guess why the kidney stones keep recurring? Osteoarthritis and bone density depend on optimal vitamin D levels, so with your severely low vitamin D levels, you should be aware of this dangerous situation. When the body doesn't absorb the needed calcium from outside sources, the body begins to get the calcium from the your bones.

          And as far as sunlight and drinking milk for vitamin D , lol, really, you've probably been drinking milk all of your life, how has it been going for you? I would be willing to bet that you need to supplement with 5000iu's vitamin D daily and keep getting tested periodically. No one should be under 30 ng/ml and that is still about 1/2 way to a 'safe' level. Good luck

          ** Moderator's note - Post broken into paragraphs for easier reading. Many people with MS have visual difficulties that prevent them from reading large blocks of print. **

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            #20
            Thanks for asking this interesting question and as always, Redwings and JerryD, thanks for sharing your knowledge in a clear and concise fashion!
            Jen
            RRMS 2005, Copaxone since 2007
            "I hope to be the person my dog thinks I am."

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              #21
              Hi maitrimama:
              In this thread, the two separate issues of vitamin D absorption and storage got mooshed together. The storage aspect was covered, but the absorption wasn't.

              If your body truly isn't absorbing vitamin D, that means it isn't getting through the digestive tract and into the body to even be absorbed and stored. You asked where the "extra" vitamin D goes. As with anything else that's ingested but not absorbed, it travels out of the digestive tract and is eliminated with all of the other indigestibles and waste products. That's a different, simpler process than for a water soluble vitamin that is absorbed but then excreted because it isn't needed. And it's unique to you because your metabolic system doesn't function normally.

              It's because of that and your kidney issues that the "don't worry about vitamin D toxicity in MS" arguments don't apply to you. Well, that plus you may not have MS.

              How to increase vitamin D absorption is a topic in itself, hopefully one that your doctors have considered for you since it has been a lifelong issue.

              The other approach is to put more emphasis on sunlight/full spectrum light exposure and conversion to vitamin D, which bypasses the absorption issue altogether. But, as you know, there are drawbacks and trade-offs to UV exposure as well.

              It might be worthwhile to ask your nephrologist what s/he thinks about converted vitamin D vs. ingested vitamin D in regard to your calcium metabolism and kidney stones. There might not be a difference. But if you're forming stones with a D level of only 18, your D intake obviously isn't the only factor.

              For example, have you tried increasing your sunlight exposure (or your full-spectrum exposure via a light box) plus reducing your intake of foods containing oxalates? There might be a combination of approaches that works for you to increase your vitamin D level and reduce your kidney stone risk. This is where folks in a kidney stone forum might be helpful.

              Caution: Not proofread before posting.

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                #22
                I'd love to hear the doctor's explanation of your dilemma. What role does vitamin D play in your kidney stones problem? Do you have a problem with bone density? I know there is a test for that. A lot of people have kidney stones and I always wonder if it is caused by an abnormality of some kind.
                I do know that my vitamin D levels have reacted positively to my regimen. And until I see levels near 80ng/mL, I will remain on the supplements.

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                  #23
                  Sorry I was'nt hear earlier to chime in on this discussion; its gotton very complex.

                  vit D is (mainly) stored in the liver (Ex. cod liver oil-is a source of vit D) and could potentially build up to toxic levels......very hard to do!

                  Kidney stones: its unfortunate that your nephrologist isn't more versed in biochemistry.
                  Kidney stones are from a raging calcium deficiency.

                  The majority of kidney stones are calcium oxalate - "bone calcium". If the bloodstream needs calcium to keep the proper pH - it will pull it from the bones. "bone calcium" can percipitate out into the soft tissues: ex., bone spurs, placque on the arterial walls, and kidney stones.

                  and Yes, vit D will exacerbate this "calcium deficiency" - but the solution is to increase your intake of ionized calcium such as calcium citrate, lactate, malate, ...calcium salts.
                  This calcium is important for soft tissue; as well as magnesium.

                  I always give a lot of magnesium to kidney stone patients. Sometimes a 1 to 1 ratio with calcium; at least 500- 800mg/day.

                  Absorption of vit D: is very dependant on your ability to digest and absorb fats.
                  This means good gallbladder function to emulsify the fats, "good" microbes to help "chew up" and utilize fats, a cleaned out lymphatic system to circulate the fats...is some of the physiology necessary to effectively utilize fats. (This also is important to absorb your fish oils, omega-3s, etc...)

                  And as others have also posted, vit D from the sun is the best.
                  NutritionTara
                  Eat better, feel better and be richer for it.

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