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    probiotics/natural ferments

    I've been reading quite a bit lately about probiotics and immune function which (funnily enough) coincided with my looking into making kimchi and real Polish dills at home (we have an overflow of napa cabbages and cukes in the garden).

    We have an excellent local-fermentation business but I refuse to pay $10 for a scant 12 oz of kimchi or $12 for a jar of pickles...

    So we got a 2 G. pickle crock for the cukes, and a 1/2 gallon jar with glass lid for the kimchi.

    My husband is circling like a vulture for the dills...I used to make hot-pack dills and he'd easily go through 30 quarts - husband is a fiend which again negates buying from the store

    Pickles are coming along nicely, we've eaten through 3 batches of kimchi now *yum! but make sure it's covered securely or your house/'fridge will get a bit...fragrant*

    Super-tasty and good for you (unless you are watching your salt).
    RRMS 2011, Copaxone 2011-2013, Tecfidera 2013-current

    #2
    We had a standing order on my first sub about NO KIMCHI ON BOARD.
    We were homeported in southern Japan and some of the guys married girls from South Korea. When we went to SK (which was pretty often) the guys HAD to bring some crocks back home or face the wrath of the Mrs.
    The trouble was that even the smell of kimchi would make our XO sick, which was why it was banned.

    Naturally, being sailors, we were all pretty good at finding loopholes in orders. We were also REALLY good at finding places to hide things.

    BTW, try planting your own dill.
    Nothing rocks pickles harder than fresh-out-of-the-garden dill and its really easy to grow.

    Comment


      #3
      I'd like to hear more. How easy/difficult is it? Did you buy the Kimchee spice? Do you have a pickle recipe or did you buy spices?

      Comment


        #4
        We did grow dill this year, it was easy -- practically grew itself~

        I checked out the book "Wild Fermentation" by Sandor Katz...has oodles of info on making fermented foods at home. We used his kosher dill pickle-crock recipe.

        I found a Kimchi recipe online called "The Ultimate Kimchi Recipe" and made a batch, it was excellent!

        I was nervous at first, letting the jar hang out on the counter, as I keep an extremely tidy kitchen/very careful about food safety etc. If you do a Google search for the recipe, it's the 1st one that comes up.

        We modify the aforementioned recipe in a few ways after making it as written once: 1 apple, and 1 peeled lemon for the fruit, and 1/2 a daikon radish instead of the broccoli. I of course think positive thoughts (as stated in the recipe) while folding in the ingredients Don't forget the garlic...yum.
        RRMS 2011, Copaxone 2011-2013, Tecfidera 2013-current

        Comment


          #5
          YYEEESSSS!

          I am a fermentation evangelist! If I lay off of them, my digestion suffers--particularly now that I'm on CellCept, which is messing up my guts.

          You can ferment...well, any vegetable, fruit, grain. Sauerkraut is probably the best beginner ferment. Salsa is a good one too--that just gets a little ferment, and it's food people already like . Yogurt is pretty easy to do too, if you do dairy (non-dairy yogurt is kinda fussy in my experience, but very possible).

          Currently in my fridge: kimchi, kimchi'd watermelon rinds, preserved lemons, mustard, fermented hot peppers, and a bunch of other fermented stuff (miso, etc.) that I didn't make. Plus vinegar from wine. Oh and kombucha.

          I mean, why take pills of probiotic if you can just eat the food, and the food is delicious?

          Sandor Katz is for sure a great resource. He just released a book, "the art of fermentation" that is so comprehensive it's amazing! I think "Wild Fermentation" is more friendly for beginners. There's tons of fermentation available a google away.

          Go forth and strategically rot your food!

          Comment


            #6
            Thank you Unscrambled! Go forth and rot! I love it!

            I include and recommend fermented food in the diet daily.
            NutritionTara
            Eat better, feel better and be richer for it.

            Comment


              #7
              love this thread - keep the info coming please

              For a number of years, part of my abc list of health challenges has been yeast overgrowth. Nothing helped. Going on cold stored 2 strain probiotic capsules began to.

              I knew my gut was out of whack from too many rounds af antibiotics, including long courses twice for H. pylori. (now allergic to most pharma antib's as result) Yes, i once did believe docs always new best no matter what, didn't ask enough questions, or learn how to undo ravages of harsh treatments! Very few health pros here who take the well rounded approach, sadly.

              I have been looking into beginning with homemade greek yogurt, but finding raw sheeps milk is not possible. and yes, am learning dairy may be something I need to eliminate. learning slowly, but trying.

              am going to see about getting copies of the two mentioned books, anyone have other pointers? recipe sites to check? much appreciated!
              Flow
              Share the chocolate and no one has to thumb wrestle for it.
              Besides, chasing you down isn't an option, my bubble wrap suit isn't built for speed.

              Comment


                #8
                Basic "kraut" is really easy. Its just smashed cabbage and (kosher) salt.

                The basics you'd need are a GOOD sturdy crock with a lid, a "smasher" (we used a 4"X4" block of wood attached to a short pole) and some patience. An electric slicer or shredder can also be very handy.

                If you're new to the game, I'd start with small batches until you get the drill down (the actual process is pretty easy but its helps to get familiar with it). Maybe just start with four heads of cabbage and see how it goes.

                Anyway, halve the cabbage heads and remove the "spine", then fine-chop or shread the leaves. You want a fairly large pile of chopped cabbage, you're getting ready to compact it down a bit.

                Next, line your crock with a plastic bag (a trash bag is fine, just BE SURE everything is clean) and throw down a 3" to 4" layer of cabbage and some salt. Bruise the living heck out of the cabbage with your smasher. You want to see the water get squeezed/smashed out of the leaves and this stuff will start to get pretty juicy. Add another layer of cabbage/salt and start smashing again. Keep repeating this until you run out of cabbage, then cover the crock (it helps to fold the top of the plastic bag over the kraut before you put the lid on) and place it in a cool place (the cellar works fine) and check/stir weekly.

                Getting fancy- I'd advise playing around with spices carefully. People tend to add stuff like onions and apples while they're smashing things up but its possible to go overboard and ruin a batch (be REALLY careful with apples, they add a LOT of sugar and you're making kraut, not beer ). Some spices like Dill can be added and mixed in after you're done smashing things (again, go easy at first- you can always add some more as your kraut ferments or wait until its time to cook a batch). My Mom swore by throwing 3 or 4 slices of dark seeded rye bread on top of the pile for the last week or so. Many spices like pepper corns or dried chillies can go into a cheese cloth bag so they're easier to remove. Just remember that most folks rinse their kraut prior to cooking (and for good reason ) so why cancel out something you already added?
                For those of you considering "low sodium" homemade kraut, don't.
                The salt is really important since its more of a preservative than a spice. Not using salt will produce something that looks like it crawled out of Dr. Frankenstien's lab.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Just a few more things-

                  Sour Kraut- I mentioned dill in the long post above. I meant carraway seeds. I wouldn't advise using dill unless you've tried it in a very small batch first or unless you have some rather gullable neighbors (What this? This is a very rare Belgian variant. Enjoy!! )

                  Pickels (for Cat Mom)- The stronger (more acidic) the vinegar, the crisper the pickle. You can find special "canning vinegar" if you look around ( I know Heintz made it) that's very strong. Likewise, the weaker the vinegar the more mellow the pickle (stuff like "chow chow" just works better when its mellow, rice wine vinegar might be worth a try).

                  One super easy recipe- If you're just starting out, here's a super easy recipe to try. Pickled hot baby carrots.
                  If you buy cans of sliced chillies (especially Jalapenos), save the brine in the can plus some of the chilli slices.
                  Buy a bag of pre-peeled baby carrots. Dump the brine into a jar (include a couple of chilli slices) and add the carrots until the jar is filled almost completely. Store in the fridge for at least 3-4 days. Baby carrots are important, they have a milder flavor and texture than their parents. (For cat Mom) Be sure to hide the jar from the Mr. while the carrots soak. They won't stick around for long.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Sorry again, meant Kate not Cat Mom.
                    I blame your avatar.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bob698 View Post
                      Basic "kraut" is really easy. Its just smashed cabbage and (kosher) salt.

                      The basics you'd need are a GOOD sturdy crock with a lid, a "smasher" (we used a 4"X4" block of wood attached to a short pole) and some patience. An electric slicer or shredder can also be very handy.

                      place it in a cool place (the cellar works fine) and check/stir weekly.

                      Getting fancy- Some spices like Dill can be added Many spices like pepper corns or dried chillies can go into a cheese cloth bag so they're easier to remove.

                      For those of you considering "low sodium" homemade kraut, don't.
                      The salt is really important since its more of a preservative than a spice. Not using salt will produce something that looks like it crawled out of Dr. Frankenstien's lab.
                      Thanks Bob now for a few specifics - bear with this newbie please. btw, made me laugh, yay! needed that today.

                      1. how long to age basic kraut?
                      2. no cellar, live in a hot humid mold friendly climate, where to store?
                      3. advice before investing in a good crock. better to pay a bit more than have to replace. and what size? I am guessing ceramic correct? where on earth would you find one that didn't require you to take out a loan? am in the states.....
                      4 why kosher salt, and can other types without the added iodization be used as well?

                      eager to learn, waiting for payday to purchase a book or two. so 2 weeks to go. medical bills taking priority right now, limbo isn't cheap. thanks in advance for your help and patience! hubby would love the carrot recipe, but no hot peppers for meplease, like with any mustard, my body goes into revolt.
                      Share the chocolate and no one has to thumb wrestle for it.
                      Besides, chasing you down isn't an option, my bubble wrap suit isn't built for speed.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Great topic/info and questions everyone!

                        Flo...perhaps your local library has some books. They can be a great resource. I will be looking for some books on this subject at the library myself!
                        Meet me in a land of hope and dreams. -Bruce Springsteen

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by gowiththeflow View Post
                          1. how long to age basic kraut?
                          That depends on things like ambient temp. You should be checking on your crock and giving it a stir once or twice a week, anyway. We all know what raw kraut tastes like. Just take a small sample and taste it when you check on the crock.

                          2. no cellar, live in a hot humid mold friendly climate, where to store?
                          That one's tricky. You don't want an enviroment that's too warm or too cold. A cool cellar is the ideal place (figure somewhere around 60 to 65 degrees). Too cold and it doesn't "work", too warm and you could wind up growing homemade penicillin.
                          If you have a local co-op, try asking them if they know folks who "grow their own" and how they do it. "Mold friendly" gets really tricky, just be sure you use a plastic bag as a liner and keep it closed. You could use a twist tie or even a clothes pin.
                          You should also know that once sour kraut starts to "work" (ferment) it can get a little obnoxious for a while. I wouldn't recommend making a batch in an apt. building or condo.

                          3. advice before investing in a good crock. better to pay a bit more than have to replace. and what size? I am guessing ceramic correct? where on earth would you find one that didn't require you to take out a loan? am in the states.....
                          Again, check if you have a co-op. You could also try yard sales, but old crocks seem to turn into planters these days. The basic idea you're looking for is something tough enough to survive the cabbage smashing that also has a lid. I've seen folks make their kraut in old retired trash cans (if you REALLY have a sour kraut jones) as long as they are clean and you use some kind of plastic liner.
                          You could also check around and see if there's an old fashioned "mom and pop" hardware store in town.
                          If you're just starting out, I'd go with smaller batches at first anyway. Think about how many pork chops you'd have to cook to use up a gallon of sour kraut. My family would make a big (maybe three to four gallons) batch then bag and freeze the portions for the rest of the year.

                          4 why kosher salt, and can other types without the added iodization be used as well?
                          Yeah, the basic idea is to NOT use iodized salt. Kosher is more of a family recipe/tradition thing. Canning salt and good sea salt would also work just fine.

                          eager to learn, waiting for payday to purchase a book or two. so 2 weeks to go. medical bills taking priority right now, limbo isn't cheap. thanks in advance for your help and patience! hubby would love the carrot recipe, but no hot peppers for meplease, like with any mustard, my body goes into revolt.
                          Just jump in when you're ready. Starting small is the best way to figure out how much of anything you need.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks Bob!

                            Originally posted by Bob698 View Post
                            Yeah, the basic idea is to NOT use iodized salt. Kosher is more of a family recipe/tradition thing. Canning salt and good sea salt would also work just fine.

                            Just jump in when you're ready. Starting small is the best way to figure out how much of anything you need.
                            I really appreciate you taking the time to help answer my questions. You are good people!

                            No co-op here. ack. and no penicillin growing for me, will do some research to see what fermented foods are standards in warmer climate areas. Yogurt a no brainer.

                            Finding ingredients to use for anything though that is organic is a toughy. Natural raised is fine by me - the certifications and fees to be approved for the organic label are unbelieveable but some folks in the area are doing organic methods without the certification. Found a lead to sheep milk too! Hubby has a friend with a small farm with goats, and I do believe they are dairy, not meat livestock.

                            keep on rotting well Bob!
                            Flow
                            Share the chocolate and no one has to thumb wrestle for it.
                            Besides, chasing you down isn't an option, my bubble wrap suit isn't built for speed.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Flow:

                              Honestly, you can ferment in any glass/ceramic container. Most of my small ferments are fermented in mason jars, with the vegetables being kept underneath the brine by a ziploc bag filled with water, so that it creates a 'seal.' A google search about this will be fruitful. Definitely you can get a more consistent/larger quantity ferment in a crock, but like you, I am not affluent, and can get to the thrift store for mason jars, which works just fine for my purposes. I'd especially recommend this if you are just starting out!

                              I think yogurt is a good idea where it's warm/moist, but you could just keep a closer eye on your vegetable ferments--the fermentation is going to go way faster, and you may have to take them out when they are a little less fermented, but it'll still be good! I'd keep it somewhere where the air is moving around, at least. Toss anything out that grows anything weird.

                              Also, I don't know if you've had sheep's milk before, but it can definitely be....potent.

                              I'd look in one of Sandor Katz's books for other suggestions for moist climates--my first ideas are dosas and injera (Indian and Ethiopian fermented breads), but I'd imagine you'd knock out all of the good bacteria when you cook them--however they are both highly delicious

                              I ferment in my pantry. Does it get a little stinky in there (especially during kimchi/sauerkraut)? Yeah but--I kinda don't care. It's just me and my husband, and he puts up with way worse than kimchi scented pantry

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