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    #16
    On the topic of whole foods/plant-based diets, what really stands out for me is how many people with MS seem to think that the ONLY reason they should eat healthfully is because of MS. Apparently, it hasn't occurred to them that they should eat healthfully (whole foods/plant-based diet) because their bodies, by their very nature, need certain foods to function correctly, repair themselves properly, and ward off diseases like cancer, diabetes, stroke, heart disease and osteoporosis.

    In looking at the recommendations of physicians and nutritionists, their diets aren't diets for any one particular condition and are all very similar: whole foods/plant-based.

    To give an example, the physicians who have programs on PBS have different angles, but their diets are all very similar. Dr. Daniel Amen's emphasis is brain health, with weight loss and healthy bodies to support a healthy brain, Dr. Christiane Northrup's angle is women's health, Dr. Mark Hyman's angle is "diabesity," and Dr. Joel Fuhrman's angle has been chronic disease. Fuhrman's latest program approaches diet from the angle of immunity/autoimmunity (but not specifically MS).

    I know there are a lot of folks who think that gluten sensitivity is only an MS issue. But many physicians and nutritionists advise against gluten for general health reasons.

    Maybe I haven't done enough reading, but I've never come across any physician or nutritionist who has said, "If you don't "feel better" on a whole foods/plant based diet, then it's OK to just eat whatever you want. Cancer, diabetes, heart disease and stroke? Fugeddaboudit! Eat all the fat, salt, sugar and processed food you want!"

    Nope, the diets are all similar, MS-specific or not. One major difference appears to be the inclusion of grains -- some allow whole grains, some allow gluten-free grains, some allow none. Some diets allow dairy, some don't. And the MS-specific diets do appear to differ on the inclusion of legumes.

    But it appears that none of the physicians and nutritionists -- who have devoted their lives to the study and promotion of healthful eating and recognize ALL of the reasons for healthful eating -- would say that there's no harm in eating processed/refined foods and those high in fat, salt and sugar just because a person's MS symptoms don't appear to get any better, or they don't "feel better" on a whole foods/plant-based diet.

    Maybe it's a privilege of youth that young folks can eat garbage without any ill effects. But as far as "feeling well," it seems that after about age 30, a lot of people become aware that the worse they eat, the worse they feel, and the better they eat, the better they feel. Eating well isn't just an "MS thing."

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      #17
      Hi all,
      I realize that I come off like a 'tough guy'. I am not looking to 'sugar coat' any of this diet stuff. As far as my choice of words, I am sorry for my being blunt. Redwings' post here makes the points that I 'roughly' tried to convey. When I read in this forum that diet is 'very expensive' and 'it doesn't work for me', I have a real problem with the thought processes that are behind those statements. To me, there seems to be some kind of agenda, aside from 'feeling better' at whatever costs necessary.
      As for me, I have seen, and heard, all of the negative statements from those that say diet 'failed ' them. 'Eating a lot of fruit makes your body obese'. Give me a break ! I have also been counseled by many different board certified doctors and medical practitioners that have NOT had any answers for the treatment of my MS. I have also found an MD who believes that the 'diet' way is the only way. He doesn't claim that diet will cure me. He just says it will help me to 'feel better'. I will take that 'baby step' over what I have now any time.

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        #18
        Originally posted by jbell2435 View Post
        I find some of the comments on here offensive or at very least insensitive ("quitters" comment for example).

        I am very glad that you and BigA have been successful and enjoy the benefits of this diet, but I didn't see any negative comments from anyone, just the OP asking a question (not asking for quitters!).

        For myself, I will not be going to this extreme on a diet because of my MS or otherwise. I want to live and enjoy my time here and that includes cooking and eating.

        When I first starting having all my problems with my leg and foot drop is when I was on a very low (almost no) fat diet and had lost 45 lbs. Sorry, but it didn't do me any good now did it.
        Weight loss isn't always healthy. My first disease presentation was also after losing weight (mine was on South Beach Diet). But please don't equate that with the health benefits of a good diet.

        I am a life-long foodie. I have work in the food industry for over 25 years and embrace food (let's be real, I love food). I am on a diet and still enjoy cooking and eating- I would say even more than before because it has peaked my creativity.
        Don't be afraid of the waves- Focus on the MASTER walking on the water - you won't even SEE the waves

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          #19
          So,Twenty Miles,
          You are saying things that I can relate to. I do not equate losing weight with best health. I will be glad to argue that the South Beach diet, that you followed and the Atkins diet, that I followed, share some part in having contracted this MonSter. |
          I am curious. Did you work as a chef in a restaurant ? Are you doing any of the published diets ?

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            #20
            There is another way to look at this which none of you are considering. Some of us already have a stellar diet and are considering dietary changes simply for the MS benefit.

            I'm a 20-year vegetarian with a "healthy" diet. All my biomarkers for chronic disorders (BP, cholesterol, triglycerides, RHR, etc.) are excellent and year after year my general practitioner says that she envies me my health. (funny, given I have MS). FYI, I'm a 48 year old woman.

            I've been looking into the Jelinek and Swank diets for MS reasons alone, and they would require me to take on foods I haven't eaten in a long time -- notably animal proteins. If I did Jelinek, I would have to adopt eating fish, Swank, lean animal proteins generally. Making those changes would be hard for me, I think, and not a matter of will power, but of, well, ethical conflict and possible revulsion.

            On Jelinek's plan I would have to give up yogurt, cheese, and eggs. Eggs would be probably the hardest, but doable.

            (I have long done a lot of the Jelinek plan: exercise, Vitamin D, and meditation.)

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by JerryD View Post
              So,Twenty Miles,
              You are saying things that I can relate to. I do not equate losing weight with best health. I will be glad to argue that the South Beach diet, that you followed and the Atkins diet, that I followed, share some part in having contracted this MonSter. |
              I am curious. Did you work as a chef in a restaurant ? Are you doing any of the published diets ?
              I have 2-chefs that report to me at work, I work in child nutrition serving kids in public schools.

              I have posted to you in the past, I'm the guy that follows Best Bet.
              Don't be afraid of the waves- Focus on the MASTER walking on the water - you won't even SEE the waves

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                #22
                Originally posted by Twenty Miles View Post
                Weight loss isn't always healthy. My first disease presentation was also after losing weight (mine was on South Beach Diet). But please don't equate that with the health benefits of a good diet.

                I am a life-long foodie. I have work in the food industry for over 25 years and embrace food (let's be real, I love food). I am on a diet and still enjoy cooking and eating- I would say even more than before because it has peaked my creativity.

                Weightloss is healthy if you're fat. Quitting smoking is healthy if you smoke. It doesn't guarantee anything. It just helps.

                You don't have to do an MS diet (note, they are not for weightloss but being a normal weight is healthier).

                It's just an attempt to increase your odds. No guarantees. But you will feel better and lessen your chances of a host of other diseases people normally blame on genes and you just might have a better disease course and life. The food only seems important now. Anyway, all you have to do is try it for a year and you will see it's not hard. But you don't have to.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by BigA View Post
                  Weightloss is healthy if you're fat. Quitting smoking is healthy if you smoke. It doesn't guarantee anything. It just helps.

                  You don't have to do an MS diet (note, they are not for weightloss but being a normal weight is healthier).

                  It's just an attempt to increase your odds. No guarantees. But you will feel better and lessen your chances of a host of other diseases people normally blame on genes and you just might have a better disease course and life. The food only seems important now. Anyway, all you have to do is try it for a year and you will see it's not hard. But you don't have to.
                  Not sure about your post, but I do support and follow a diet, and feel incredible.
                  Don't be afraid of the waves- Focus on the MASTER walking on the water - you won't even SEE the waves

                  Comment


                    #24
                    I jusst try to eat healthy!

                    We've gone lacto vegetarian a couple of times. My husband is thinking of doing it again we he retires next year. (He does all the cooking. It's safer that way)
                    The only think I've found bad about
                    lacto vegetarian is going off it suddenly and eating fried pork chops with potatoes and gravy
                    Your gut doesn't seem to be able to handle a sudden meal of that sort
                    I saw a part of a Dr.Oz show where whoever the guest was advocated eating healthy 99% of the time and the 1 % , go ahead and have that Sunday.
                    Just be sure you don't do it very often.
                    Another pirated saying:
                    Half of life is if.
                    When today is bad, tomorrow is generally a better day.
                    Dogs Rule!

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Twenty Miles View Post
                      Not sure about your post, but I do support and follow a diet, and feel incredible.

                      That's great. It sounded as if you were making some version of the "some skinny people are unhealthy, so I don't need to watch what I eat since it's no guarantee" arguement.

                      My friend who has become as large as a house tells me "some people are thin and unhealthy, some are big and healthy", meaning it's all a wash. But we know it isn't.

                      I'm a believer in diet and am glad you're getting benefit. I still have weight to lose, btw, so I know it's not easy, even on a good diet.

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                        #26
                        i'm with redwings--a good diet is wise regardless of the MS. i have not felt a major change in my energy level or symptoms since i switched my diet off of dairy and gluten nearly a year ago.

                        BUT i have lost 10 lbs and i am now at a healthy weight (not that this was my goal, but it was a benefit), my skin has cleared up, and my daily intake of fruits and vegetables is at least three times what it used to be. i think you would be hard-pressed to find the negative in that.

                        i don't know if the diet change will do anything for my MS progression. and even time can't tell me that. but i am hedging my bets there and hoping for the best. either way i am very happy with my switch and still enjoy amazing and delicious food. sometimes it takes more planning to eat out but its WORTH IT.

                        nothing will change our diagnosis. diet cannot take it away. neither do the meds, for that matter. but why not provide your body with the best nutrition you can? and if it helps prevent progression even by 10% isn't that worth it?
                        dx: RRMS 9/8/11 copaxone 12/5/11

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                          #27
                          Good conversation. I think about this stuff and am trying to improve my diet all the time. Less meat, more vegetables, less sugar.

                          I am a 50-year-old woman with good vitals. Diagnosed just last December. People close to me over the past couple years tell me I already eat healthy. But I think I could do better.

                          All that said, on the other hand, however ...

                          Sometimes I think extreme MS diets (I'm thinking of Swank and Wahls) might actually be ways of punishing our bodies for getting sick. A form of eating disorder. I mean, maybe I didn't get diagnosed before I was 50 because I was already doing something right.

                          Just a theory. I'll duck now.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Mable View Post

                            Just a theory. I'll duck now.
                            Lol. Swank is easy and not very extreme at all. It's by far the most flexible of all the diets. But if you're "eathing healthy" you should nearly be there already.

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                              #29
                              You're correct Big A. Swank isn't terribly far from my current diet. And it's not that difficult to follow.

                              I cited it as extreme because I had read that when patients with MS didn't do well on it, it was generally believed that the trouble was with their adherence. The message being that if you don't follow the diet perfectly, you only have yourself to blame when your disease progresses.

                              Should have used olive oil instead of butter in that apple pie last Thanksgiving. Is it any wonder you're in a wheelchair today?

                              One more thing to tell you, Big A: I enjoy your contributions to this board. Always a fun and interesting conversation!

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Woops: thread loss

                                First: after starting this thread, I didn't realize I wasn't subscribed to it, and with everything else going on I didn't notice anyone had responded! Yikes, and thanks!

                                Second: as per my profile, my questions pertain to my recently diagnosed 16 y.o. niece. She's awesome, doing LOTS of exercise and eating very well, generally. She's not overweight, so the diet question had nothing to do with weight loss.

                                The reason I posted is that there tends to be a strong bias against negative results in "science" (including very casual science like people sharing their experiences here). I KNOW some people have great results with diet. And that MS is not the only reason to eat better. But there's a significant difference between knowing that some people have good results (as indicated by reports) and understanding the full range of responses.

                                Of course, the kicker is that people might well feel like they are doing the same diet, when in any number of important ways, they aren't (quality of food, concurrent exercise, timing of meals, adherence, etc.)

                                Anyway, I'm not complaining: this has been an interesting thread, thanks for everyone's responses.

                                Personally, I've been sort-of lacto-ovo-vegetarian for many years, with just bits and pieces of fish and poultry (currently, perhaps 1-3/month). Generally my biomarkers are excellent. I know I don't get enough aerobic exercise, and that reduces my energy level... I'm on the thin side of normal, so weight loss is a non-issue (I've attempted weight gain, in fact, in the past, but have only succeeded when I was weightlifting and eating TONS, and then only by 10-15 lbs in a year). Since I'm really writing to be able to think about my niece, this is only of indirect relevance.

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