How harmful is fighting? thanks for space to vent

[Jade Divine]

My DH and I have a long history of verbal fighting. Maybe it happens once or twice a month now but before, during the time period leading up to my second exacerbation --- the fighting reached an all time high - no violence just fast escalation into screaming matches leaving me crying sometimes for hours, holes punched in walls, lamps thrown, etc. And we were fighting a few times a week.

I am often blamed for causing these fights although IMHO that's not the case, it takes two to tango and my DH is very moody, also very funny and charismatic -- also very hostile in general toward the world and usually has a depressed outlook on his life and future.

When we're not fighting we generally enjoy a loving marriage.

Simple question::: If your loved one is crying in front of you asking you to just stop fighting and talk, stop being cold and shutting me out, etc. -- what would you do? My DH ignores me, or tells me he's sick of me being disappointed in him and I'll never be happy, etc. He asserts that his reaction of being cold and stuck in his anger is perfectly normal and justified, and ps he's sick of being blamed for exacerbating the MS.

He will ignore me for hours, even if I am in the next room crying the entire time. As it gets closer to evening, if I try to talk to him about it (so hard for me to go to bed upset or angry) he just wants to go to bed so he can get up for his "awful job" the next morning. He accuses me of being ungrateful for what he does do for me, like food shopping if I'm too fatigued, working an extra day a week for the last year while I waited for my disability hearing to take place.

I'm scared and I don't know which way is up. I'm so confused now I don't know who starts what -- I don't even think it matters. I'm not a big wrong vs. right person. What does it matter who is right if you are both wounded by the battle?

I'm worried about the effect this could be having on my health and began telling him this during that year preceding my second MS attack. Now when we fight his line is he's just sick of me blaming him for my illness.

When an argument reaches a certain level and I am really upset, crying, we're throwing the word divorce back and forth, I have to get in my car and leave. I simply cannot tolerate being around him when he is angry. Pack my bag, get in my car, pick up cigarettes, start driving to a friend's or my parents only to get a phone call asking me to come home.
And I turn around.

Is it unreasonable for me to ask him to just stop being so angry when he sees how upset I am? or to talk to me BEFORE I leave the house because of the emotional toll it takes on me? Plus the danger of crying and driving.
I get really upset. When I do ask him this he blames me for starting the argument and feels it is unreasonable for me to ask him to do anything different.

is it more harmful to stay in a stressful marriage or to go through a divorce?

I do feel a worsening of symptoms after a fight and it takes days for me to get back to "my normal."

Any feedback, from caretakers and MS-ers will be appreciated.

Do other MS-ers find when they get upset it is hard to calm down?

Thanks for the space to vent.... sorry so long... it was a rough weekend and I am at the end of my rope.

Oh yeah, and he doesn't want to go to counseling - he doesn't believe it is helpful. And he claims to love me with all his heart and soul, etc... and that this marriage means everything to him, everything he does is for me, every choice he makes is with me in mind, etc.

Jade

[KatieDidNOT]

Jade-

I did not want this to go without a reply. I put together several replies yesterday, but never hit sent, because I did not want to offend you.

I would imagine this has taken its toll on you. I divorced my husband over emotional and verbal abuse...and I put up with that ONLY because I had MS. But not once did his fist go through a wall or was a lamp thrown. That is violent. Walls become faces and lamps become body parts. Had that happened to me, believe me, police would have been called and he would have been put out on his pa-toot...

I am hoping kids are not involved here.

In every relationship, disagreements occur. But most can be worked through in a rational manner. It sounds like to me the "rational" line has been crossed.

You know EVERYONE, if they have MS or not deserves to be loved and in a relationship that is not violent.

Best of luck to you--Katie

[Miss Ginny]

My DH and I have a long history of verbal fighting. Maybe it happens once or twice a month now but before, during the time period leading up to my second exacerbation --- the fighting reached an all time high - no violence just fast escalation into screaming matches leaving me crying sometimes for hours, holes punched in walls, lamps thrown, etc. And we were fighting a few times a week.

I am often blamed for causing these fights although IMHO that's not the case, it takes two to tango and my DH is very moody, also very funny and charismatic -- also very hostile in general toward the world and usually has a depressed outlook on his life and future.

When we're not fighting we generally enjoy a loving marriage.

Simple question::: If your loved one is crying in front of you asking you to just stop fighting and talk, stop being cold and shutting me out, etc. -- what would you do? My DH ignores me, or tells me he's sick of me being disappointed in him and I'll never be happy, etc. He asserts that his reaction of being cold and stuck in his anger is perfectly normal and justified, and ps he's sick of being blamed for exacerbating the MS.

He will ignore me for hours, even if I am in the next room crying the entire time. As it gets closer to evening, if I try to talk to him about it (so hard for me to go to bed upset or angry) he just wants to go to bed so he can get up for his "awful job" the next morning. He accuses me of being ungrateful for what he does do for me, like food shopping if I'm too fatigued, working an extra day a week for the last year while I waited for my disability hearing to take place.

I'm scared and I don't know which way is up. I'm so confused now I don't know who starts what -- I don't even think it matters. I'm not a big wrong vs. right person. What does it matter who is right if you are both wounded by the battle?

I'm worried about the effect this could be having on my health and began telling him this during that year preceding my second MS attack. Now when we fight his line is he's just sick of me blaming him for my illness.

When an argument reaches a certain level and I am really upset, crying, we're throwing the word divorce back and forth, I have to get in my car and leave. I simply cannot tolerate being around him when he is angry. Pack my bag, get in my car, pick up cigarettes, start driving to a friend's or my parents only to get a phone call asking me to come home.
And I turn around.

Is it unreasonable for me to ask him to just stop being so angry when he sees how upset I am? or to talk to me BEFORE I leave the house because of the emotional toll it takes on me? Plus the danger of crying and driving.
I get really upset. When I do ask him this he blames me for starting the argument and feels it is unreasonable for me to ask him to do anything different.

is it more harmful to stay in a stressful marriage or to go through a divorce?

I do feel a worsening of symptoms after a fight and it takes days for me to get back to "my normal."

Any feedback, from caretakers and MS-ers will be appreciated.

Do other MS-ers find when they get upset it is hard to calm down?

Thanks for the space to vent.... sorry so long... it was a rough weekend and I am at the end of my rope.

Oh yeah, and he doesn't want to go to counseling - he doesn't believe it is helpful. And he claims to love me with all his heart and soul, etc... and that this marriage means everything to him, everything he does is for me, every choice he makes is with me in mind, etc.

Jade

I had to sit and think long and hard about replying... I didn't want to sound preaching... but I spent 15 years in a very abusive marriage....verbally and physically. He made me feel less than human... he didn't put me in a wheelchair but the constant berating and blaming sure as heck didn't help...
I too spent hours crying and wondering why "can't he love me" why don't he see how much he is hurting me?
Why? Because he just didn't care... he thought everything was my fault..
We tried counselling once and when the therapist suggested that maybe he should go to anger managment...all heck broke loose and I was scared to try again...
I spent 2 years in therapy to get up the courage to stand on my own and kick him to the curb... it was the best thing I did for me and my girls...

I am now in a loving relationship with a real man... who loves me for me.
I think when someone has a debilating illness ... they don't need "toxic people" adding to the mix....
hope this helps some..
hugs.

[LisaL77]

"I am often blamed for causing these fights and my DH is also very hostile in general toward the world and usually has a depressed outlook on his life and future. "

"He asserts that his reaction of being cold and stuck in his anger is perfectly normal and justified"

"he just wants to go to bed so he can get up for his "awful job" the next morning. He accuses me of being ungrateful for what he does do for me, like food shopping if I'm too fatigued, working an extra day a week for the last year"

These particular sentences jumped out at me that your husband may have a serious depression problem that preceded your illness being brought into the mix. There is nothing worse than an unhappy person fingerpointing all around them except introspectively looking inward. We all have awful jobs, and there are times in our relationships where we give 120% and the other person can only give a little. I tell everyone who communicates to me they are unhappy....ask yourself if you can do this for the next 40 years every day. You probably got a few good decades left, do you want to spend it this volitile way?

[kif8skip]

Hi Friend - I have not read the responses, only your post and I just wanted to say that just because he does not want counceling , does not mean you should not get it.

It sounds to me that it would be of great benefit to you to get help and advice for yourself

[modernjazz]

I feel your pain

I found the page at emotional-times helpful to me. Something about "instead of trying to control my feelings, rather go ahead and let myself feel things" helped. he said:

** Cut-and-pasted material removed per MSWorld Guidelines. If you want to provide a link to Emotional Times, you may put it in your Profile. **

maybe I can revisit this later after I get back (just leaving now). I feel your pain though. hang in there. I'm glad you posted this... thank you.

[modernjazz]

"Do other MS-ers find when they get upset it is hard to calm down?"

I'm not going to pretend to solve your problem. I did have some emotional struggles relating to me and my wife. I can share some things that helped. I'm the one with MS

Some friends of ours through a church "home group" became friends of ours. My wife was pretty much sick of me AND was suffering due to the illness and eventual loss of her mother 8000 miles away... so my little MS problems were the last thing on her mind and she was gone about 9 months out of 12 in 2011.

but these friends saw our need and sorta stepped in and helped out. so I would say reach out to friends.

My friends helped me try to deal with my end of things. For example my homemaking skills were severely lacking but together we all worked on our house so that when she returned it was a pleasant surprise mostly. I guess I tried to take the position that maybe there's something I could do better and discovered there was a ton I could improve on. And my taking steps to show I cared helped her realize that hey we have hope here. Because I can't change her moods but there are things I can do, so that helped. We have a long ways to go, but it saved my marriage and made things happier. But I wouldn't bring in friends who take sides between you and him. Friends that want the success of your marriage, who care about both of you... hopefully you have some people like that.

as for the tears... I shed so many of them, but at times tears did help me relieve some of the emotions. But I wouldn't use the tears as a weapon or to achieve a result. Maybe to cry privately sometimes can relieve stress, but your husband may not understand their meaning or be able to deal with it if you cry while fighting.

But another thing I read recently was helpful about how to beat the blues. it listed 7 ways:

1. by reading
2. with work
3. with variety
4. exercise
5. with conversation
6. with music
7. by giving

maybe applying some of these things can help you take care of you, and to be happier in general. maybe you're into a book, or adding variety to your diet or activities. Music is helpful too if it's sorta positive (not the emo stuff too much *wink*). I'm not saying it's your fault or your issue, but if you're crying that much you yourself aren't too happy either so these things might help you feel better and eventually draw him closer to you and by osmosis make him feel better too.

Also what helped in our situation was I tried to support her and understand her pain, so I went twice overseas to be with her and her family, and was made a big part of the funeral, so I guess just being there for her meant something. You know - it's hard having MS to realize that other people have problems just as big to them as MS is to us. But her Mom meant everything to her. Realizing her perspective changed the situation for us gradually.

I hope that helps in some small way. Plus I tried to have faith in Jesus because it all seemed just too big for me to solve. That helped me. But it's tough, I know. I'm sorry for your pain.

[CindyW]

We used to fight a lot

We used to fight a lot until I got treatment (medications and therapy) for depression. We don't fight any more. I don't boil over and he knows some things are caused by my depression and not to take things personally.

[Thinkimjob]

Yes, he sounds depressed. Yes, it's all good when you're not fighting.

But don't kid yourself you're not in a violent relationship. Punching walls and smashing stuff is frightening.

Counseling might work, can't hurt anyway, but don't stay just because you're scared about having MS and being alone.

If it wasn't MS, it sounds like it would be something else.

Here endeth the sermon. Good luck, whatever you decide.

[mswife333]

It's scary how close your post was to the same situation I logged on to post about.My husband is the one with the MS though. I keep going back and forth whether it's part of the disease or he is just a horrible person. I guess that kinda answers the question seeing as your husband doesn't have MS. I can't offer any advice, as I can't find the right answers to my problems either, but I understand EXACTLY what your going through if you need to vent.

[Waydwnsouth1]

Well I am not qualified to issue any advice. but I wll say this. A longtime friend that is an Associate Professor is preparing her information for a talk on family abuse which will cover all facets of abuse. The got me to thinking about wife on husband abuse. So I started my research. I shocked at what I found.

Since my memory is horrible all I can tell you is to google man on woman abuse. I selected the link to about.com ( I hope I can mention that ) and it had and enormous amount information. It provide deifinitions of the different types of abuse one can be subjected to.

Now I did this because as I got to thinking about it. I surmmized as unfortunate as it is I am in an abusive relationship with my DW and have been for 29 years of marriage. At times it can become physical but she is so tiny I able to hold her off. But she has thrown things, has ripped shirts right off my back and the name calling seems to escalate with every argument which she always initiates. I tried to encourage her to seek help and take medictaion to help her. She always responds with I am the crazy one and so crazy that I have to take medication. I was dx bipolar 12 years ago. She always tells me how worthless I am and that even your own sons know what a worthelss MF, SOB you are. My sons and I have an exceelent relationship. I will not respond choosing not to engage in that type of behavior and generally ignore her when she gets like that but that just angers her more. I know I am by not perfect and I have my faults but noon deserves this type of treatment. We own two homes that pay all the expenses for and when times get tough she refuses to participate financially in anyway her esponse is get a different job. I won't even go into our intimate relationship or should I say the lack therof. I will spare you anymore gory details. But let's just suffice it to say it only gets worse.

I have noone to talk as she has, over our 29 years of marriage, managed to alienate all our friends by refusing to attend any functions. So, I called my psychologist to make an appointment. He is extremely easy to talk to and I have seen him off and on for the last 12 years. Counseling is out of the question for her.

I know this has turned into a long rambiling post but it has helped me at the sametime. If I were to offer advice it would be to seek professional help. Someone that can you bare your soul to and will give you the proper guidance.

Good Luck to you and you will be in my prayers.

[chocoholic1976]

Solutions

No marriage with MS is easy. My DH is the MSer. I have to remind myself constantly to...

• Take care of myself
• Treat him with love and kindness no matter what
• Stand up for myself when situations are not acceptable
• Reach out to others
• Work on my own part in the situation

I agree with what someone else wrote. Individual counseling can be incredibly helpful. Take care.

[Jade Divine]

still married!

Still married. Much more peace. We are both less depressed. It's easier for me to walk away and give him space when he's angry. We did some counseling. We don't fight the way we did. It's been over a year since our last major fight.

Physically I am doing much better. I am much less disabled -- this happened after I stopped taking copaxone. I have more energy now to be a wife and homemaker. This is a new role for me since I was always a career oriented person... but I'm adjusting happily to this new role.

Thanks so much for the support. Sometimes it can work out. I was diagnosed about 7 years ago -- maybe we were going through a major adjustment? I don't know... stress can really pull the worst out of people.

--- peace