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Let's talk about medicinal marijuana (Cannabinoids)- Member Topic for March 2018

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    #16
    Life Changer!

    I've had M.S. for many, many years. I've tried "all the drugs" my neurologists could throw at me over many years. Nothing worked for my evening burning feet pain, which kept me half comatose for many years. When medical cannabis became legal in IL, I was there day one out of desperation. Yes I became Euphoric! But not from THC. Two puffs off a vape tool (as recommended by my neurologist) as opposed to smoking, and the pain was gone! One of my other neurologists (yes I had more than one, I was desperate), would always tell me that the only medication that worked immediately were antacids. Well, cannabis, vaped, is another!

    A few puffs, and the pain is gone! Completely! I found that CBD rich strains work best for my type of pain. Pure CBD as from hemp, helps, but is not as effective as CBC rich flower. Cannabis is more than just THC & CBD. Do the research. Since I use it evenings, when my pain shows up, a CBD rich indica also helps as a sleep aid, though I no longer have a problem getting to sleep due to pain. The idea of cutting off my feet with the sawzall in my garage so I could get to sleep, starting exhausted by 6-8pm, but up till mid-late morning because of the pain. Cannabis brought me back from the walking dead! It's not a cure. If I don't vape, or can't, the pain is like clockwork back in full force. That's when the all 50 states CBD from hemp helps a little.

    Certain sativa's work great for fatigue as well. I can enjoy things I could not do anymore, such as lawn work...? Never enjoyed it before, but when you simply cannot do it if you tried, being given a second chance, I now love it! Cannabis gives you a whole extra set of spoons! No drug ever did that. The air force / anti-narcolepsy drugs such as Nuvigil / Provigil kept me from falling asleep in Chicago's rush hour traffic while still working, but did nothing for the fatigue. This is amazing. And with lots of research ever since, from many sources, I've come to the conclusion, it's Big Pharma that's against it the most, yet they are patenting strains,....? The pharmaceutical equivalents have been disliked by everyone I know who have tried them for years. Most are using opioids for their pain. I'm so glad I was not sent down that dangerous route.

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      #17
      Products with CBD

      There's a company out of Washington state from Whidbey island just getting going using hemp and CBD oils in their products. My husband and I have both found relief using these lotions and salves. I even recommend the shampoo and conditioner if you were checking into those. The rejuvenation lotion is the one that works the best on my spascity but my husband's back pain responds well to the hemp lotion. This little "farm" company is definitely something to check into.
      KicknMSback

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        #18
        Here is an interesting article on the effectiveness of MMJ for spasticity, a big symptom in MS and Stiff Person Syndrome

        https://echoconnection.org/spasms-me...arch-overview/

        Comment


          #19
          Glad you brought this up. Let me start by saying marijuana should be legalized or at the very least taken off of schedule 1 status at the federal level. There probably are medically applicable compounds in Marijuana but they need to be researched, refined, subject to regulation and distributed via the normal route and this cannot happen under current conditions. And I believe the MMJ industry will strive to maintain the current status quo.

          Let me also make a few points about "Medical Marijuana" as I see it.

          First I would not use it in its raw form, nor would I use some concoction produced in some would be lab by by some random untrained, uncertified individual.

          ALL drugs have side effects! MMJ is no different but as long as it is classified schedule 1, legitimate researchers cannot study it for potential side effects. Currently, the MMJ industry denies any correlations to undesirable side effects based on correlation not being proof of causation. How very convenient.

          At present desirable canabinoid compounds are not being isolated, tested and produced by any reputable process and they can't be without running afoul of federal law. Hence there is no Supplement or Drug in a purified form available either over the counter or via prescription. Again, very convenient for the MMJ industry as refinement, production and distribution in a supplement form would likely be much much less expensive. Even refinement to a prescription drug might be less expensive than the so called products out there today.

          There are problems with legalized MJ. I live in Denver Colorado where it is legal and here are just a few unintended consequences of legalization I perceive.
          automobile accidents and deaths from automibile accidents have increased
          automobile insurance rates have skyrocketed by about 30%
          suisides have increased by 15% since the introduction of MMJ
          homelessness has increased dramatically as has heroine use
          the majority of homeless drug users are felons, many recently released because of MJ legalization
          crime, particularly non violent crime has increased significantly
          there has not been a decrease in illegal trafficking of MJ because the illegal stuff is cheaper
          emergency room visits related to MJ in minors under age 18 has increased significantly
          the incidence of fetal exposure to MJ has increased

          I could go on and on but my point is that the conversation regarding MJ needs to change. The canabinoid compounds need to be isolated and tested both for beneficial applications and undesirable side effects. They need to be produced, maybe even synthesized in clean environments by trained pharmacists and made available to the public in a maner that insurance companies can become involved with. The cannabis industry won't like any ofthis. They are perfectly happy with their advertising jingle "Medical Marijuana", it sells product.

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            #20
            Okay, thanks for that comment, Badaimata. It got me searching some things.

            The primary trouble I'm having is that I must not be searching correctly, as I can't find any sites data agreeing or disagreeing with your claims. Also, words you use like "significantly" and "because of" are variable to the reader... raw data would be preferred, preferably from a reliable source, like a .gov site.

            In short, you haven't changed my mind. Please repost with sources cited. It would be appreciated.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by headrift View Post
              Okay, thanks for that comment, Badaimata. It got me searching some things.

              The primary trouble I'm having is that I must not be searching correctly, as I can't find any sites data agreeing or disagreeing with your claims. Also, words you use like "significantly" and "because of" are variable to the reader... raw data would be preferred, preferably from a reliable source, like a .gov site.

              In short, you haven't changed my mind. Please repost with sources cited. It would be appreciated.
              Headrift, I'm not trying to change your mind, only the conversation around MJ in America today, in fact, you are quite right, there is NOT a lot of scientifically verifiable information nor legitamately sourced statistics out there. A lot of what I've said has come from local news media stories over the past few years. The increase in suicide rate is available in a raw form, but you will have to calculate the actual number yourself. The rise in auto insurance rates in legal MJ states has been on the news, or any Coloradoan can shold yout their bill. Some of the information came from talking to police and for sure, it is only an estimate, no one is keeping track. The NIH does have some studies available and you might also try places like the Netherlands where MJ has been tolerated longer and usage studied more in depth.

              Some comes from observation. I am an avid cyclist and as such I've come across "Homeless" camps in various parks and on trails. I can only say, if anyone ever found animals living like that, there would be hell to pay! Many of these homeless are homeless by choice, here to avoid prosecution for drug use, but are making things much more difficult for the truly disadvantaged. Granted, Colorado being among one of the first to legalize the drug, has probably seen a concentration of unintended concequences. All the more reason to legalize it nationally.

              I am more than willing to use canabinoid compounds for pain and spasticity in the form of a refined product with scientifically studied effects, but I am reluctant to put something concocted in the back room of some "dispensery" by an individual of dubious qualifications, in my body.

              Change the conversation, do medical canabinoids the right way.

              Comment


                #22
                Agreed on the "first state" problem. I'm in Idaho, and we're pretty much surrounded by legalized states. I'm sure arrests here have risen quite a bit.

                As for the purity of the cannabis, that is also questionable, but I'm reminded of a meme I saw yesterday about weed dealers needing shareholders to gain some respectability among the medication companies.

                Again yes that this is just the early days. We'll have to see how things fall out over the next decade and more.

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                  #23
                  Gets to it being a point of understanding. It might be legal for you, gut good luck getting it prescribed or so I hear. Has anyone tried that yet?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by headrift View Post
                    Gets to it being a point of understanding. It might be legal for you, gut good luck getting it prescribed or so I hear. Has anyone tried that yet?
                    It helps a lot for me. Especially with neuropathy. It also cuts spasticity @20% for me.

                    In Florida, only 9 companies are allowed to provide MMJ. Each company has to grow it themselves, harvest it, process it, and sell it. The state has a complex statute governing these companies.

                    Docs have to go to special school to be certified MMJ docs. There is a central database they report into.

                    Patients get a state MMJ card that qualifies them based on diagnosis and cert by MMJ doc. MS is a qualifying condition.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      I never drew within the lines

                      I was diagnosed with MS 24 years ago. I have been smoking marijuana for 20 years. Primarily because I needed too function which I could not do taking prescriptions medication.

                      I had seen the street evolution changing from extremely commercial to more upgraded strains coming out of the West Coast. Illinois now has medicinal marijuana and I've watched that evolution as well.

                      Since it's inception it was immediately apparent that Medicinal is far more potent than what can be bought through a "street pharmacist". Within 6 mths. my opioid use was reduced by half. Meaning I could use MMJ to bring my symptoms and pain within tolerable confines.

                      If I'm in a very bad flare, MMJ allows me some breathing room while waiting for narcotics to kick in.

                      It is not a cure. It is, however, a medicinal option that doesn't carry a black box label or require frequent bloodtests to check for organ failure.

                      Peace,
                      Anna

                      Comment


                        #26
                        What MS symptoms can hemp (or marijuana) help?

                        I'm not interested in medical marijuana; it's not legal in my state, and hemp, without the weird side effects might be just as effective.

                        But I might pursue hemp capsules if I could find info on what symptoms it helps, other than pain and spasticity (which I don't have). Does hemp do anything to help with mobility? It isn't likely that it would delay progression, although that would be awesome. Those are my two main concerns right now, as I've recently progressed to using a cane when I leave the house, and i seem to be observing declines in my abilities even within the past 2-3 months. My daughter can notice differences between my mobility between January and April.

                        I've done some googling but haven't found any easy-to-read lists about how hemp (or marijuana) can be effective in treating MS symptoms (other than pain and spasticity).
                        ~ Faith
                        MSWorld Volunteer -- Moderator since JUN2012
                        (now a Mimibug)

                        Symptoms began in JAN02
                        - Dx with RRMS in OCT03, following 21 months of limbo, ruling out lots of other dx, and some "probable stroke" and "probable CNS" dx for awhile.
                        - In 2008, I was back in limbo briefly, then re-dx w/ MS: JUL08
                        .

                        - Betaseron NOV03-AUG08; Copaxone20 SEPT08-APR15; Copaxone40 APR15-present
                        - Began receiving SSDI / LTD NOV08. Not employed. I volunteer in my church and community.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          First up, hemp has neither CBD or THC, which are the components that are effective... CBD might maybe be legalish in your location, but if you don't have real MMJ your options are limited. Hemp is not "active" and smoking it, or even pills, are not likely to help.

                          For me, a good dose of CBD and some THC helps my gait, but being in a non-MMJ state, who knows what I'll get next time. I find both of those are needed.

                          I can't really comment on other things. My memory might be a little better over time, which may or may not be MS. Other things like pain are cut way down. I know a person than ranked her pain at a 6 before, and a 3 after. Some help is good help.

                          MMJ is good for symptoms, but doesn't do much for progression. It's not a miracle med.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by headrift View Post
                            ... Hemp is not "active" and smoking it, or even pills, are not likely to help...
                            I've continued to read, and I'm not ready to dismiss hemp entirely. I've read that hemp can help reduce inflammation and urinary frequency and can help with sleep. Those are all issues that don't make it useless, as you might be suggesting.

                            You suggest that mj might help you with memory and with pain. I'm glad for you, but those aren't symptoms that I experience.
                            ~ Faith
                            MSWorld Volunteer -- Moderator since JUN2012
                            (now a Mimibug)

                            Symptoms began in JAN02
                            - Dx with RRMS in OCT03, following 21 months of limbo, ruling out lots of other dx, and some "probable stroke" and "probable CNS" dx for awhile.
                            - In 2008, I was back in limbo briefly, then re-dx w/ MS: JUL08
                            .

                            - Betaseron NOV03-AUG08; Copaxone20 SEPT08-APR15; Copaxone40 APR15-present
                            - Began receiving SSDI / LTD NOV08. Not employed. I volunteer in my church and community.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I was wondering what your neuro said about medical mj? What about interfering with our ms meds.?

                              It is legal in my state and I have an appoint. with my neuro at the end of the month and I will be talking to him about it. Does the neuro have to give a letter stating you have ms and then you go to a mmj dr.?
                              God Bless Us All

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Mama bug,
                                MMJ will not stop or treat MS disease. It impacts symptoms of pain and spasticity. As it ameliorates that your gait could be affected in that your muscles will be less spastic.

                                Hemp is unregulated. It us CBD from hemp plant. But you donít know what youíre getting. Some like Edens Cure. It can help pain. My experience with hemp was uneven. MMJ is much more effective, and at least in Florida, tightly regulated.

                                Comment

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