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    Does EBV cause MS?

    I've been reading and searching the web for many years and it seems like EBV is connected to or is the cause of MS ! The virus usually lies dormant in humans and causes various diseases, some more serious than others ! It seems that MS and EBV are linked but I haven't found any studies to confirm this ! Anyone have anything to add?

    #2
    BARTS-MS has a highly scientific article about EBV, its effect on T-Cells and connection to MS. You may have already seen it:

    https://multiple-sclerosis-research....fects-t-cells/

    I noticed Dr. Giovannini tweeting about EBV quite a bit over the past year. So during an appointment with my neurologist in early April I asked, "what do you think about MSRV?" He responded that he believes there are a lot of different causes or "triggers" of MS. As such, his opinion is that targeting one virus might not be the solution to fighting MS in every patient.

    Well, if it works for people with MS who have been exposed to EBV, that would be a great success wouldn't it?
    All the best, ~G

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      #3
      Does EBV cause MS?

      Yes, EBV appears to play a central role in causing MS, however, EBV is not a simple, straightforward, direct cause and effect for the disease. EBV allows other factors, such as MSRV (an acronym for Multiple Sclerosis Retro Virus) to develop, which in turn begins additional processes leading to the development of MS.

      So, EBV is at head of a series of cascading events which end in the development of MS in those genetically susceptible to MS... and, MS occurs more often in those with certain known environmental factors...

      Such as birth month (in the northern hemisphere a child born in May or June means the mother was pregnant during winter when sun shines less so the mother has less vitamin D. More people born in May or June have MS than born other months), low vitamin D is a risk factor in MS, smoking is a risk, factor, also. Very likely, more environmental factors will be recognized in the future.

      There are tons of article linking EBV and MS found by googling.

      Also, as I often point out, many of the most relevant EBV articles and studies are presented in the Charcot Project thread at this site under New Treatments, Trials and Research. It is a long thread but very informative about linking EBV and MS.

      Happy Mother's Day all!

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        #4
        Thanks for the quick replies, folks ! I realize that there are several factors that combine to create the MS 'booogie man' ! It seems to me that eradicating EBV from the equation could have a positive route to getting back some of my life ! Happy Mothers Day !

        Comment


          #5
          My doctor didn't dismiss it, but didn't hang his hat on it, either. It might be a wait and see thing for patients. My fear is always of jumping on new treatments that could cause more harm than good -or harm and no good, when it turns out to be a dead end.

          Comment


            #6
            Definitely more to it. If EBV was the cause, then alot more people would have it. What I read still is multi level trigger: EBV , genetics for auto immune response, and some environmental trigger.

            My siblings all exposed to EBV, but thankfully, they are fine. Not much else different in life exposures, really makes you wonder what caused me to be different?
            Kathy
            DX 01/06, currently on Tysabri

            Comment


              #7
              Hello,

              Well-meaning people mistakenly believe that if EBV caused MS then more people would have MS because EBV is so prevalent; such logic is faulty.

              Scientists have made much progress in understanding that gene changes often occur during life, rather than being inherited. Acquired gene changes can result from exposure to radiation, cancer-causing chemicals, or infections, but often these changes occur for no apparent reason.

              For example, certain changes in DNA, the chemical which makes up our genes, is known to cause certain cancers. Identifiable DNA changes occur that turn on oncogenes (cells that help cancer grow) or turn off tumor suppressor genes. The reasons behind DNA changes are not fully understood but the fact they do occur is a known and those changes sometimes occur during someone’s life rather than being inherited.

              There is a great deal of study involving genetics and MS. Please keep in mind that genetic changes happening during someone’s lifetime may occur due to known environmental risks but often occur for no apparent reason.

              Specific to the question of EBV causing MS… the reasoning that if EBV causes MS more people would have MS because nearly everyone has EBV is thinner than Grandma’s nighty. It is known that EBV causes certain types of Hodgkin lymphoma cancer so why doesn’t the hundreds of millions with EBV have that cancer? We do know EBV causes certain diseases but not everyone with EBV gets those diseases.

              In meta-analysis it has been proven that 100% of those with MS have been infected by EBV. When the studies which found a couple of people with MS had no EBV were thoroughly analyzed it was found that the testing of those subjects was not verified by a second, follow-up test nor did the original test use methods of the highest degree of accuracy. We can accurately and confidently state 100% of MSers have had EBV infection.

              But just because you have EBV does not mean you will get MS; other factors enter and they must enter for MS to develop.

              Does EBV play a central role in MS? Oh, definitely yes, without question!
              Would EBV vaccine eradicate MS? There is huge interest in such a trial but the vaccine has to be developed first and it would take 50 years after vaccination to prove if anyone so immunized would or would not, develop MS.

              But Dr. Pender in Australia is doing something similar and with major success… taking blood from MSers, enhancing it with EBV killer cells and re-injecting it. His method is discussed in the Charcot Project thread.

              A trial of Temelimab, which roughly attempts to mimic Pender’s work is seeking participants is discussed toward the end of the Charcot Project thread. Pender is involved with it. A small first trial had spectacular results and so a larger one is being organized presently. Temelimab kills MSRV (Multiple Sclerosis Retro Virus) parts of which are our DNA, which is “turned on” by EBV to replicate in some people, those who have MS.

              Basically, Pender killed EBV. Basically, temelimab kills MSRV. Both methods worked extremely well in small trials.

              Comment


                #8
                I've never had mono. I'm sure that doesn't mean I was never exposed to the virus though.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by football-mom View Post
                  I've never had mono. I'm sure that doesn't mean I was never exposed to the virus though.
                  I am the same ~ never had mono. I'm not even sure how research would link pediatric MS to EBV if the infant or young child wasn't exposed and never had EBV. There is so much more to this disease. EBV has been considered a possible link to MS for many years but so far research has not been conclusive.

                  The month you were born really isn't that reliable. There have been polls done, even on MSWorld, to try and link your birth month to a higher possibility of MS. All this showed was there wasn't any single month(s) that stood out as having a higher incident than others (we were all over the place with our birth months. These polls were done because information surfaced that certain birth months could show those at risk for MS. This is really very old information and nothing new in research.

                  What I have seen is "new" information that isn't new but recycled from years past. This obviously isn't true for all new information.
                  Diagnosed 1984
                  “Lightworkers aren’t here to avoid the darkness…they are here to transform the darkness through the illuminating power of love.” Muses from a mystic

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If anyone can provide a reference from a reliable source pointing to an infant or young child with MS who “wasn’t exposed to and never had EBV” please provide it here, won’t you? I can find no reference from a scientific study or researcher supporting the existence of such a case.

                    Prominent researchers state that people, which includes children because children are people, “typically get exposed to virus in saliva, hence the term kissing disease. Another 10% get exposed sexually. Other ways are via blood and organ transplants.”

                    Estimates run as high as 98% of adults have EBV so is it possible some children could be exposed to the virus by their parents or a relative with EBV kissing them? It is not uncommon for a parent to kiss an infant or young child and if well over 90% doing so have EBV then the possibility of transmission is clearly present.

                    The most prominent researchers investigating the EBV-MS connection repeatedly state 100% of those with MS have EBV; not 99.99% but 100%.

                    One of my closest friends with MS swears she has never tested positive for EBV. I absolutely believe her. But I explained that there are various methods of testing for EBV with various degrees of accuracy. And, when cases like hers have been closely examined it turns out the testing methods used were not the most accurate available. On the other hand, when the most accurate testing methods are applied to those with MS, 100% demonstrate having been infected by EBV according to prominent researchers.

                    I’m sure I offended her long-held personal opinions but in the long run, the truth is your friend and I believe she has finally accepted that at some point she, too, was infected by EBV. I believe the truth is like that, it continues presenting itself and gradually replaces long-held popular misconceptions.

                    Conflict is like grit in a tumbler full of gemstones where all the stones come out more polished, lustrous, and brilliant. If that process involving conflicting views underlies friendship then you have something truly beautiful and priceless.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by pennstater View Post
                      Definitely more to it. If EBV was the cause, then alot more people would have it. What I read still is multi level trigger: EBV , genetics for auto immune response, and some environmental trigger.
                      This is exactly the perspective of particular MS researchers I've queried about EBV and MSRV. The presence of the virus alone may not equate to the condition that is MS - they think it's part of a combination of things that trigger the MS response. Smoking (past or present), Vitamin D or blood sugar levels, general health, stress. At least some forms of MS are the result of a viral, genetic, and environmental cocktail.

                      I think general health is a big factor, once the trigger is activated. When I look back, what I now know were relapses can be seen in clear chronology with times when stress and my self care were not consistent. The personal data is solid.

                      So, what's the harm in targeting EBV as part of MS therapies, in much the same way people are admonished to stop smoking, observe heart healthy diets, and exercise?

                      --------------
                      Myoak
                      If anyone can provide a reference from a reliable source pointing to an infant or young child with MS who “wasn’t exposed to and never had EBV” please provide it here, won’t you? I can find no reference from a scientific study or researcher supporting the existence of such a case.
                      -----------

                      I'll throw some data in and say although I've never tested positive for EBV, I'm sure I've been exposed to it via networks of people where a friend or family member was diagnosed.

                      I'm sorry if this has been covered - I hunted a bit in the forums to see, but does the occurrence of EBV map geographically, the way MS does? Or perhaps geographical location is just one more factor in an already-triggered instance.
                      All the best, ~G

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Myoak,

                        Originally posted by Myoak View Post
                        If anyone can provide a reference from a reliable source pointing to an infant or young child with MS who “wasn’t exposed to and never had EBV” please provide it here, won’t you? I can find no reference from a scientific study or researcher supporting the existence of such a case.

                        Prominent researchers state that people, which includes children because children are people, “typically get exposed to virus in saliva, hence the term kissing disease. Another 10% get exposed sexually. Other ways are via blood and organ transplants.”

                        Estimates run as high as 98% of adults have EBV so is it possible some children could be exposed to the virus by their parents or a relative with EBV kissing them? It is not uncommon for a parent to kiss an infant or young child and if well over 90% doing so have EBV then the possibility of transmission is clearly present.

                        The most prominent researchers investigating the EBV-MS connection repeatedly state 100% of those with MS have EBV; not 99.99% but 100%.

                        One of my closest friends with MS swears she has never tested positive for EBV. I absolutely believe her. But I explained that there are various methods of testing for EBV with various degrees of accuracy. And, when cases like hers have been closely examined it turns out the testing methods used were not the most accurate available. On the other hand, when the most accurate testing methods are applied to those with MS, 100% demonstrate having been infected by EBV according to prominent researchers.

                        I’m sure I offended her long-held personal opinions but in the long run, the truth is your friend and I believe she has finally accepted that at some point she, too, was infected by EBV. I believe the truth is like that, it continues presenting itself and gradually replaces long-held popular misconceptions.

                        Conflict is like grit in a tumbler full of gemstones where all the stones come out more polished, lustrous, and brilliant. If that process involving conflicting views underlies friendship then you have something truly beautiful and priceless.
                        You are 100% correct. There may be many reasons why we have M.S. but one thing for sure is that we all have E.B.V. Thank you for your comments.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          "but does the occurrence of EBV map geographically, the way MS does?"

                          Over 90% of the world's population has EBV. Most often picked up during childhood and usually asymptomatic.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by KittyCoCo View Post
                            There may be many reasons why we have M.S. but one thing for sure is that we all have E.B.V.
                            I have seen the studies where 100% of participants in the particular study were found to test positive for EBV so while I would agree likely a significant number of people with MS have EBV I do not believe it is reasonable to say 100% just yet.
                            He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
                            Anonymous

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The most comprehensive data indicates 100% of those with MS have EBV.

                              If you don’t have EBV you don't have MS and if you have MS you have EBV, according to the meta-analysis below of 2760 adult and 303 pediatric MS patients. After distilling out false negatives, 100% of those with MS tested positive for EBV. Not 99.99%, but 100%.

                              Also, of 3637 adult controls and 386 pediatric controls in the meta-analysis, 100% of those who tested negative for EBV found zero cases of MS.

                              It is perfectly okay for some to disagree but this study is as conclusive as it gets, or as KittyCoCo elegantly states, “There may be many reasons why we have M.S. but one thing for sure is that we all have EBV”. Yes, KittyCoCo, you are 100% correct according to the most reliable data.

                              As she and so many others have correctly pointed out, EBV alone does not produce MS or over 90% of the world would have MS. Obviously, additional factors come into play, also.

                              About 1 in 20 adults are misdiagnosed with MS which could explain why someone thought to have MS may not test positive for EBV. Also, roughly 4% to 6% of some EBV testing methods give a false negative.

                              The meta-analysis of 22 adult and 3 pediatric studies adjusted for false negatives. Using only those having at least two separate, independent assays for EBV, 100% of those with MS tested positive for EBV. And, there were zero cases of MS in those who were EBV negative.

                              This result was published in Multiple Sclerosis June 11, 2012 and is quoted below.

                              "CONCLUSION: The sensitivity and specificity of the assay used to measure EBV antibody titers have an influence on the association between MS and EBV. Looking at studies where two independent methods are used and therefore are likely to be the most robust, EBV appears to be present in 100% of MS patients. This has implications for future studies of EBV in MS. MS patients without EBV infection, if they truly exist, should be studied in more detail."

                              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22740437

                              The risk of developing multiple sclerosis in individuals seronegative for Epstein-Barr virus: a meta-analysis.

                              Dr. Gavin Giovannoni commented, "This study tells us two things. (1) The assays we use to assess whether or not you have had EBV are not that sensitive. In other words, being negative on one assay means you may still have had EBV infection in the past; a false negative test. When you are negative using two different assays you are more likely to be EBV negative, a true negative test. This is a very important observation and has major implications on how we interpret the EBV data. (2) If you are EBV negative on two different assays your risk of getting MS is zero compared to someone who is EBV positive. This observation indicates that EBV is likely to be the cause of MS or at least fall in the causal pathway. This is why we need to focus our research."

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