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    Are allot more vet's getting MS?

    I am the brother of a vet with MS. I am concerned about him so I joined this site.


    It seems like allot of vets have MS. When my brother was diagnosed he was on active duty in the middle east (in the middle of his third back to back tour). He got Really Sick over there and came home with some kind of an injury. After several visits with neurologists and specialists it was decided he had progressive MS. The Doctors seemed unsure at the time, but as time marches on his symptoms are clearly MS.


    When he came home from the war he was blind and couldn't walk. His symptoms faded after a wile but he's ben getting worse again lately.


    It seems to me that something happened. Are we poisoning our troops? Does Anyone else see more people from the military having MS than anywhere else? Or am I just angry and biased?

    #2
    Sorry to hear about your brother.

    I have heard that vets are more likely to get MS than non-vets. Is it accurate?

    Did he regain his vision?

    With a bit of luck maybe its RRMS instead of progressive.

    GOMER

    Comment


      #3
      Sorry to hear this....

      I don't know if there are statistics for Vets having MS, but I work for my state and can tell you that my workplace which has 75 ppl, 14 of which are Vets of some kind, there is one Vet with RRMS. Which brings my total experience with Vets, including ppl I know in my life, to 1 in 20.

      Maybe you are onto something and the VA may keep records of such things.

      Comment


        #4
        Gulf War Vets & MS

        Multiple Sclerosis is higher in Gulf War veterans than in the civilian population. The statistics in the military run contrary to the "Caucasians of northern European ancestry, female, between 20-50." On average, military service members are younger, in better physical shape, get plenty of sunshine, are more likely to have a controlled diet and have more men than women as a percentage of their population. The rate of MS among Gulf War veterans is 2-4 times higher than the worldwide population.

        Despite the numbers, the Department of Defense and VA are reluctant to consider MS as being service-related. In fact, just this year the CBO wanted to drop MS as a covered disability with the VA as unrelated to military duties.

        Here are two story links:

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22645888

        RESULTS:
        During the 10-year period, there were 1,827 incident cases of MS with an overall incidence rates (IRs) of 12.9 per 100,000 person-years (p-yrs). Black non-Hispanics had a higher IR: (18.3 per 100,000 p-yrs) than White non-Hispanics (12.5 per 100,000 p-yrs). The incidence of MS by birth month and geographic home did not show a clear trend of seasonality or latitudinal gradient.


        http://www.militarycme.com/clinical-...population-903

        Wallin reported a total of 2,638 cases of MS and an average annual incidence rate of 9.6 per 100,000 person years (p-yrs) among his cohort, while Deussing noted a total of 1,827 MS cases and an overall incidence rate of 12.9 per 100,000 p-yrs. Interestingly, these results far exceed other reported incidence rates for MS, both in the US and worldwide. A systematic review published in 2007 noted a median estimated annual rate worldwide MS incidence of 4.2 per 100,000 p-yrs.3

        Comment


          #5
          He did originally regain the vision but that was 5 years ago. Since then, his symptoms have ben progressing and he is losing the vision slowly again. Also he is having a very hard time walking.



          It just seems to me that military is doing something that is causing hi numbers of vets to get MS. And not just later in life, but immediately and really bad. Like some kind of an injury.



          Thank you for your response.

          Comment


            #6
            The VA has a very looooooooong history of avoiding & denial of SC health problems among vets. I have been in a, so far futile war, with the VA for decades.

            I never had a problem with my L-hand turning into a uncontrollable claw or falling down until I was stationed in Pensacola. I was moved to indoor hanger duty then eventually to indoor (air conditioned) IM (intermediate maint). I did much better after and fewer sick calls after that.

            I was NAVY.... what branch was your brother in and what type of duty?

            Gomer

            Comment


              #7
              There's absolutely no way the DoD will come forward and say what there doing is causing Vets to come down with MS. There's so much out there and I've read so much about the amount of vaccines that are taken that were given to Gulf War Vets, and OEF vets. Can this cause your immune system to develop MS? This question can go for years and decades.

              The DoD and VA see MS as Service connected disability. I don't see them something is service connected and then flip back to not being service connected...not in Todays Military

              Comment


                #8
                Research...DVA

                I was doing some research tonite and found an article in the New Your Times I found interesting. Its NOT a MS article but it is mentioned. The article noted that MS has been on the presumptive list going back at least to the 1960s!

                Here is a link to the article I read;
                http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/us...anted=all&_r=0

                I can not help but dawn my skeptic hat and wonder if back when I was active duty Navy in the mid 60s to Late Dec 1969, they suspected MS but avoided treating issues like muscle problems I had way back then. Was that WHY I was treated as a GOMER? Did they suspect MS and moved me to indoor air conditioned IM duty?

                The more I research, the more old questions (& suspicions) arise.

                The DVA or VA for short is a virtual lead plated brick wall impenetrate-able by the likes of me. For me, I have already outlived my life expectancy by over 3 decades, so I am about ready to call it quits, but what about the younger vets?

                Gomer

                Comment


                  #9
                  To Gomer

                  Gomer

                  My comments are not intended to trivialize you or your struggles with health issues or the VA.

                  I believe it very unlikely that the military medical personnel you saw during active duty (1965-1969) knew much about or even suspected that you might have Multiple Sclerosis.

                  I say that because:
                  • Non-specialist medical training at that time (as now) probably included no more than one month with a neurologist (during residency training) seeing patients with all types of neurological problems (epilepsy, Parkinson's, migraine headaches, dementia, MS etc.)—not enough neurological training to recognize cases of unusual onset or slow progression of multiple sclerosis.

                  • Your episodes that lasted at least a day during active duty don't seem to have been paralysis (full or partial), optic neuritis or other classic early episodes of MS (that a non-specialist might recognize/remember).

                  • No uniform criteria for the diagnosis of MS existed until publication of the Schumacher criteria in a March 1965 paper. (Remember that publishing a paper does not instantly change the minds and behaviors of medical practitioners. New ideas get passed along to medical students far more readily and rapidly than to those whose training has already been completed.)

                  • At the time of the Schumacher criteria, oligoclonal bands tests were not available, and MRI was years away from use on humans.

                  • The Schumacher criteria required "No better explanation for patient's symptoms and signs." (As you know, a lot of symptoms can be associated with diabetes and/or cancer.)

                  It's also unlikely that the VA physicians you saw in the early to mid-80's were in any better position to recognize/diagnose your neurological problems for some of the reasons given above even though the diagnostic criteria changed to the Poser criteria in 1983.

                  The Poser criteria defined paraclinical evidence to include CT and NMR scans (later renamed MRI) and testing of CS Fluid.

                  In 1983, MRI use with humans was in its infancy. Only 94 clinical NMR/MRI machines were available in the USA as of August 1984 and many of them were low field strength. (The first MRI machine purchased by the VA was a .15T whole body machine installed in Feb 1984 in St. Louis.)

                  Also a lot of research had yet to take place to determine what MS looked like on MRI. (A paper entitled THE ROLE OF NMR IMAGING IN THE ASSESSMENT OF MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS AND ISOLATED NEUROLOGICAL LESIONS A QUANTITATIVE STUDY was accepted for publication in March 1987.)

                  I collected the historical facts about MRIs and the information about medical training to satisfy questions that arose in my path to a much delayed diagnosis in 2002. (Arm numbness in the 1960's, optic neuritis in 1982 and 1983, major lower body numbness in 2002.)

                  I found out that technology just wasn't there at the time I first needed it in 1983, and no general practitioner who declines to order MRIs (1996 through 2001) has the training to give or exclude a diagnosis of multiple sclerosis (even if he is training others to be doctors, is consistently on the list of BEST doctors in the metropolitan area and has been elected president of the Association of Family Medicine Residency Directors--like the general practitioner I saw.)

                  It actually helped me to realize that Dr. "BEST"'s failure to take my situation seriously was due to his medical ignorance and not merely an attempt to practice the cheapest medicine possible.

                  Again my comments are not intended to trivialize you or your struggles with health issues or the VA

                  Wishing you well

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I understand what you are saying 2cents....

                    I have 2 basic problems that bug me.

                    One is back in 1987 I complained so much something else was wrong they sent me to their shrinks! Even after that (not nuts, not even depressed) the VA docs still did nothing!

                    Second.. back on active duty I was admitted to sick bay for pancreatitis. My records do show I was ordered to see the doc before being released back to duty. When I saw the doc, he made me have sugar testing, and said if I had sugar in my urine I was in TROUBLE (again). On the other hand he said if I passed at least the urine test to "forget it ever happened".

                    Years later, the first time I got a sore throat after the Navy I ended up in a meat-wagon ride to ER and admitted for diabetes! The doctor gave me hell for not having my diabetes (that I did not know about) under control.

                    I mostly blame the bout of pancreatitis for my diabetes, my records note I had to see the "MO" (Dr) but the actual doctor's notes and tests as well as his Dx are MISSING from my records. So I can not get very good diabetes care at the VA. I do have a good civ endo and great control these days.

                    Gomer

                    Comment


                      #11
                      To Gomer

                      To Gomer

                      I agree that you have had a real struggle with your health and that you had to wait too long for the medical community to recognize your problems. I'm glad that you have good control of your blood sugar now.

                      Some thoughts about your pancreatitis experience in the Navy (around 1968):

                      Many doctors leave a lot of their thoughts unspoken to save their time or to avoid needlessly worrying the patient. Also many don't express what they try to say perfectly. When the doctor said "to forget it ever happened", he probably just meant to go on with your life.

                      Even if the doctor had known that chronic pancreatitis might lead to diabetes, he might not have wanted you to live with that dread (particularly since he didn't know if your pancreatitis would become chronic and you couldn't have done anything about it anyway.)

                      If your urine test had been positive for sugar, he certainly wouldn't have withheld a diagnosis of diabetes. I believe that because untreated type 1 diabetics (don't produce much, if any, insulin and) rapidly exhibit many undeniable medical problems (excessive thirst, excessive urination, weight loss, distinctive smelling urine, etc.) and tend to die rather quickly. A patient's death coming soon after release from his medical care probably would have been embarrassing to the doctor.

                      Thoughts about your VA experiences in 1987:

                      Doctors compartmentalize very efficiently. A doctor takes notes during an appointment, but when the patient leaves the examination room, the patient leaves the doctor's mind. The doctor moves on to the next patient, and nothing about the previous patient is retained except what is recorded in the patient's medical file. (Patients remember a lot more about an appointment and what was said than the doctor does.)

                      Except in extraordinary circumstances, doctors look at (or think about) a patient's problem only when it is placed in front of them (usually during an appointment or after an alarming test result is received) and only from the perspective of the next step they can take at that moment. Usually after a normal finding from a test or referral, a patient must see the doctor again to prod the doctor into taking another step. Sometimes due to the limitations of medicine, there really is no next step to be taken at the time.

                      When you saw the VA doctor in 1987 after your visit to the shrinks, that was probably the first time he/she thought about your problem(s) again. But even though you hadn't been helped, the VA doctor really might not have seen a next step to take. (Diabetes symptoms can include fatigue, vision and sensory problems and even some balance issues. Your symptoms didn't clearly point to MS as it was understood at the time. MRI probably wasn't available at that VA facility, and referral to a facility with MRI probably would have required a medical emergency.)

                      Thoughts about the doctor who yelled at you for not "controlling" your diabetes (after your "meat-wagon ride to ER"):

                      He was a jerk to yell at someone in a medical crisis and without all the facts. Did he have any experience with you before the ER visit? Possibly he was just insensitive, was having a really bad day, or, if he had seen you before and had not properly tested for a problem, was covering his discomfort by playing the old "Blame-the-patient" game.

                      Anyway, I have (a long-delayed) diagnosis of MS, and my brother had adult onset type-1 diabetes (until his death at 48 at the end of last year). You certainly got a double whammy.

                      Wishing you well.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        He was a jerk to yell at someone in a medical crisis and without all the facts. Did he have any experience with you before the ER visit?

                        YES he was a jerk! of a jerk

                        NAIL on HEAD, or, if he had seen you before and had not properly tested for a problem, was covering his discomfort by playing the old "Blame-the-patient" game.

                        My family doc who I had been with for years refused to see for follow-up after "a minor sore throat". He said he had "sick patients that needed him". My boss at work asked me if I would see a doctor if they made an appointment. My boss was nervous asking me, I told him YES! I also told him my fam doc refused to see me.

                        2 days later I saw the co doc. He gave me a clean bill of health and sent me on to work in time for lunch. Later than same evening we sat down to watch TV and after a couple tiny sips of Coke, it was a meat-wagon ride to ER. So he was steaming MAD I landed in the hospital later the same day I saw him.

                        My diabetes is a bit weird. I am treated as a type-1 as I am NOT insulin resistant, the main feature of type-2.

                        Well that's the short version...

                        Gomer

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