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How many brain lesions on average do we have?

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    #31
    A tech is the person putting you into the MRI and running the MRI. A radiologist reads the MRI.

    Same with x rays and CAT scans, sonograms, etc.

    The tech is doing it the radiologist and or Dr reads it and gives the Dx.
    Skinny/Jess

    In Limbo for 7 years. MS Dx July 2011. I am a Copaxone Cutie

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      #32
      Originally posted by kingrex View Post
      That's right. I didn't think I said anything different.

      Regarding your comments about radiologists and technologists - you haven't got it exactly right. Technologists understand the technology and we understand what we see, but we don't offer official interpretations to anyone, nor do we even offer confidential, off-the-record opinions. As for the radiologists' reluctance to state things with absolute certainty, it's not about leaving doors open - it's about not being sued by patients who don't understand that radiology is part science and part art, as all diagnostic medicine is.


      rex
      This made me remember my first MRI when I was in the process of being diagnosed although I had no clue it would be MS.

      I tried to get the technologist to tell me what he saw and was like "dude I know you can read these things" but he remained professional and replied "if I could read them I'd be the one with the Mercedes in the parking lot". It was the first time I laughed since the whole MS thing started.
      He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
      Anonymous

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        #33
        I know what you mean. I was in the ER in so much pain and they did a CAT scan on me to see what was wrong the tech was so sweet I asked her after the scan if she saw anything she said I can't tell you anything the Dr has to look at it. Then she asked me have you ever had a kidney stone before?
        I knew at that moment she had see one. I said no then changed the subject. They do see things it's what they do. It's like being an RN and a child walks in holding his ear you know it's an ear infection but you can't give the Dx or the Rx.
        Skinny/Jess

        In Limbo for 7 years. MS Dx July 2011. I am a Copaxone Cutie

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          #34
          Originally posted by Jules A View Post
          This made me remember my first MRI when I was in the process of being diagnosed although I had no clue it would be MS.

          I tried to get the technologist to tell me what he saw and was like "dude I know you can read these things" but he remained professional and replied "if I could read them I'd be the one with the Mercedes in the parking lot". It was the first time I laughed since the whole MS thing started.
          You know, it's tough to act like we're dummies when patients ask us these questions, but if we answer truthfully two things are likely to happen. First, although the patients always promise to keep our comments in confidence, they never do - in fact, they always repeat our comments to their physician, who then tries to get us fired. And because it's illegal for us to render an opinion to the patient, we again risk losing our jobs and licenses and we risk being sued..all because we tried to help put a patient's mind at ease.

          Patients aren't supposed to care about the technologist performing their exam...they have enough to worry about. So, we have to worry about ourselves.


          rex

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            #35
            Well I care about the tech doing the tests always, with the upmost respect. They are always so nice they make me laugh or smile when in pain or scared. I have always had the most amazing techs and when your in a venerable situation it always helps.

            I hope Rex you make the pts that come though you feel that way. I have yet to have a tech treat me badly.
            Skinny/Jess

            In Limbo for 7 years. MS Dx July 2011. I am a Copaxone Cutie

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              #36
              Penkalet and Enigma 1019

              Thank you, Penkalet, for purchasing the book - I would love to hear what another person with ms thinks of it. Will you write a review at Amazon?

              And Enigma - I was my neurologist's "enigma" as I had so many lesions and so few, inconsequential symptoms. I had to work that into the title!

              Thanks for reading and responding to my comment
              First symptoms: 1970s Dx 6/07 Copaxone 7/07 DMD Free 10/11
              Ignorance was bliss ... I regret knowing.

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                #37
                Originally posted by kingrex View Post
                You know, it's tough to act like we're dummies when patients ask us these questions, but if we answer truthfully two things are likely to happen. First, although the patients always promise to keep our comments in confidence, they never do - in fact, they always repeat our comments to their physician, who then tries to get us fired. And because it's illegal for us to render an opinion to the patient, we again risk losing our jobs and licenses and we risk being sued..all because we tried to help put a patient's mind at ease.

                rex
                It is probably for the best, can you imagine having to tell someone that they have MS?

                The only person I knew with MS had been bedridden for years and was near death when I was diagnosed so they were the most horrifying words I have ever heard.

                My neurologist at the time couldn't even look me in the eye when he told me which further terrified me.
                He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
                Anonymous

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                  #38
                  I was dx'd in 2003 - supposedly had sx's starting in 1994.

                  Was dx based on 2 small lesions on my upper spine, brain was clear.

                  Somewhere in that time, have now 1 small lesion in my brain...but according to the first follow up Spine MRI since 2003 - my two small lesions have now grown into one large, solid 12cm (appx 5.75 inches) lesion on upper spine!

                  My new neuro tested me for Devics disease earlier this year because of the spine lesion and length of time with disease and only the one lesion on the brain...but it's plain ol' MS - just 'spine based form' according to him.

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                    #39
                    Chalknpens,

                    Just received your book today and I am at chapter 4. I think you are a good writer and for sure will let you know my comments.

                    Talk to you soon.

                    Alain

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                      #40
                      Because we've moved around a lot, I have had MRI's done in a variety of facilities in several states.

                      None of my MRI reports say how many lesions I have, but as Kingrex says, there aren't that many lesions, maybe half a dozen, certainly not 60 or 70. My neuros have never said how many there are either. But one time I had to have a second MRI in a city 100 miles from my home town and I brought the old films from home for comparison with the new films (long enough ago they really were films, not CD's).

                      The home town neuro-radiologist said I had many lesions and "a pretty heavy burden of disease." The big city neuro-rads looked at the same MRI and said I had "a relatively light burden of disease."

                      I suppose that is the art and science part, and then just difference of opinion.

                      Interestingly, while all the techs have been pretty nice, the "home town" techs always arranged for me to review the films with the radiologist in the reading room after the study was completed. "Big city consult" tech told me that the radiologists did not talk to patients. I then asked for him to return my own home town films to me immediately so I could leave. The radiologists (two neuro-rads were puzzling the films out together) were looking and comparing, didn't want to give up the films so they let me come in and look at the new study with them.

                      The radiologists were very cordial and appreciated the additional input when I told them what my home town neuro, neurosurgeon and neuroradiologist were thinking. I got the feeling that it was the tech who did not want a patient talking to the radiologist.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by onlyairfare View Post
                        Interestingly, while all the techs have been pretty nice, the "home town" techs always arranged for me to review the films with the radiologist in the reading room after the study was completed. "Big city consult" tech told me that the radiologists did not talk to patients. I then asked for him to return my own home town films to me immediately so I could leave. The radiologists (two neuro-rads were puzzling the films out together) were looking and comparing, didn't want to give up the films so they let me come in and look at the new study with them.

                        The radiologists were very cordial and appreciated the additional input when I told them what my home town neuro, neurosurgeon and neuroradiologist were thinking. I got the feeling that it was the tech who did not want a patient talking to the radiologist.
                        No, it's not the techs. I've never worked with radiologists who were open to sitting down with the patient and reviewing the images. Protocol wise, our job is to perform the scans ordered by the physician, but most clinicians want to know the results of all the patient's tests before putting it all together and sitting down with the patient. This makes sense to me.

                        As a technologist I feel my first responsibility is to do the best scan I can. At the same time, I want to take care of the patient's needs during the exam, but not at the expense of the information gathering process. I'm very friendly and reassuring, but I don't let the patient control me. That means helping the patient to find the strength to complete the exam in a satisfactory manner.

                        I honestly don't believe that the patient needs or merits access to the radiologist. This is more than simple protocol; the MRI findings are just one piece of the puzzle, and unofficial conversations with patients before the referring physician has had a chance to digest the results are irresponsible and decidedly ill-advised, IMO.


                        rex

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                          #42
                          The home town neuroradiologist was my friend and neighbor, and the MRI's were ordered by my family doctor because the "MS specialist" neurologist had missed the diagnosis of brain tumor; he did not read the report and did not notice the tumor on the films. However, my family doctor was not real knowledgeable about brain tumors - how could he be, he is an FP not a neurosurgeon - so he felt it was best that I discuss next steps with the neuroradiologist, who did know a thing or two about brain tumors.

                          The tumor was a 6.5 cm sphenoid ridge meningioma grown to occupy most of the anterior and middle cranial fossae and seriously compressing the temporal lobe, IOW bordering on a life-threatening situation. My friend the neuroradiologist saw to it that I was promptly referred to a good neurosurgeon in "big city," who ordered additional MRI studies at his favorite facility with radiologists known to my "home town radiologist." Whether or not it is typical for a patient to speak with a radiologist, under these particular circumstances it was the most expeditious route, exactly what my friend had intended. Once the "big city" radiologists realized I was the patient sent by "hometown radiologist" they were happy to talk with me.

                          I was very lucky I had a friend who was a neuroradiologist, as it is very easy for an arrogant neurologist to brush off a middle aged MS patient with headaches. Had I waited for the incompetent MS specialist to digest the information (he had already demonstrated he was going to ignore the tumor), I'd have been at risk for a seizure whilst driving 70 miles an hour on the interstate. Or continued tumor growth to the point where successful surgery with intact survival would have been unachievable.

                          Sometimes it's better to take some unconventional steps.

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                            #43
                            how unusual is innumerable?

                            Originally posted by chalknpens View Post
                            I have "innumerable" lesions on my brain
                            I am a newbie (to MS and to this site!)... I just got to look at my full MRI report and it also says "innumerable" lesions... woah! was feeling pretty blas'e about it all until I read that...

                            Is it an uncommon thing to find? (I wonder if its something they put in their full reports for the specialist, and then the specialist only tells you about the big noticeable lesions that they know what its affecting??)

                            well.. anyway yay for this website, I feel better finding someone with the same :-)

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