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    New discovery

    Wow, talk about a new source of hope for MS research and possible cure.

    http://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.co...rvous-systems/

    #2
    OK. Trying to find the important part of the article.

    This sentence sticks out: “We believe that for every neurological disease that has an immune component to it, these vessels may play a major role,” Kipnis further noted. “Hard to imagine that these vessels would not be involved in a [neurological] disease with an immune component.”

    Anybody else have any comments? How might this affect us? Are there additional things, while researchers are waiting to find out more, that we could be doing, simply to help our immune systems stay heatlhy? Seems like that would be a good strategy for managing MS, if what they are saying is accurate.
    ~ Faith
    MSWorld Volunteer -- Moderator since JUN2012
    (now a Mimibug)

    Symptoms began in JAN02
    - Dx with RRMS in OCT03, following 21 months of limbo, ruling out lots of other dx, and some "probable stroke" and "probable CNS" dx for awhile.
    - In 2008, I was back in limbo briefly, then re-dx w/ MS: JUL08
    .

    - Betaseron NOV03-AUG08; Copaxone20 SEPT08-APR15; Copaxone40 APR15-present
    - Began receiving SSDI / LTD NOV08. Not employed. I volunteer in my church and community.

    Comment


      #3
      This is a very preliminary announcement. A major factor is that these lymphatic vessel were found in mice. The researchers don't even know if the same vessels even exist in humans. So right now human researchers are hopeful but, except for veterinarians who treat mice, the announcement is quite premature.

      It's a wonderful announcement for getting funding from investors for further research. But medically, it's just another piece of information that could easily fall by the wayside.

      Even if this pans out for humans, it's just one pathway and one piece of complex human physiology. Probably not the Holy Grail.

      In MS the immune system IS healthy. It's just misdirected. If it weren't working so well, the immune system wouldn't be strong enough to do so much damage in autoimmunity.

      If this lymphatic pathway exists in humans, it's already functioning under the current understanding of autoimmunity and inflammation. If if exists, it's working in our bodies right now. The discovery doesn't change anything for people with MS, and it doesn't mean anything as far as how we live our lives.

      The recommendations for how to stay healthy and live an "anti-inflammatory" lifestyle don't change just because a pathway has been discovered. Recommendations won't change until after the workings and effects of the pathway have been discovered.

      One area of usefulness the researchers mentioned was as an avenue of drug delivery. As people with MS, there's nothing we can do about that right now.

      But if anyone has a mouse with EAE or another autoimmune disease, you might want to take it to the vet.

      Comment


        #4
        I do realize this study was in mice. I know a lot of people seem to feel this is another red herring. Personally, I am excited with this one, but do appear to be in the minority on this board. My understanding is that right now, all treatment is designed thinking the auto immune system attacks the brain. If this exists in humans, they are thinking the brain may actually have a role in controlling the immune system.

        Maybe I am overtired, but anymore, it seems hope and positive thinking are not always welcome. I am finding it harder and harder to hang onto these thoughts the more I come to the board. Time to disappear for awhile.
        Kathy
        DX 01/06, currently on Tysabri

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by pennstater View Post
          I do realize this study was in mice. I know a lot of people seem to feel this is another red herring. Personally, I am excited with this one, but do appear to be in the minority on this board. My understanding is that right now, all treatment is designed thinking the auto immune system attacks the brain. If this exists in humans, they are thinking the brain may actually have a role in controlling the immune system.

          Maybe I am overtired, but anymore, it seems hope and positive thinking are not always welcome. I am finding it harder and harder to hang onto these thoughts the more I come to the board. Time to disappear for awhile.
          Kathy: I too am excited about this research. Every once and a while you get a pessimist or a realist in their minds since its their opinion, but there are positive people on here like me! Don't go away, you are such a contributor to this board I would hate to see you leave.

          Get some rest.
          Lisa
          Disabled RN with MS for 14 years
          SPMS EDSS 7.5 Wheelchair (but a racing one)
          Tysabri

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by pennstater View Post
            I do realize this study was in mice. I know a lot of people seem to feel this is another red herring. Personally, I am excited with this one, but do appear to be in the minority on this board. My understanding is that right now, all treatment is designed thinking the auto immune system attacks the brain. If this exists in humans, they are thinking the brain may actually have a role in controlling the immune system.

            Maybe I am overtired, but anymore, it seems hope and positive thinking are not always welcome. I am finding it harder and harder to hang onto these thoughts the more I come to the board. Time to disappear for awhile.
            Kathy

            Not so long ago, there were many of us being "blasted" for not being positive and hopeful. I too wanted to leave the Board because some people were just being hateful...but honestly, all that would do is hurt me.

            Bottomline...IMHO, everyone should be entitled to express an opinion without fear of ridicule. I am clearly in the "pessimistic and realist" group. And honestly...I hate being sterotyped too. I just try to steer clear of many posts that I simply don't agree with.

            Please don't leave. The written word is open to much interpretation. I personally value your input. Maybe you just need a break. I take breaks from MSWorld sometimes...I have to.
            Katie
            "Yep, I have MS, and it does have Me!"
            "My MS is a Journey for One."
            Dx: 1999 DMDS: Avonex, Copaxone, Rebif, currently on Tysabri

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by pennstater View Post
              I do realize this study was in mice. I know a lot of people seem to feel this is another red herring. Personally, I am excited with this one, but do appear to be in the minority on this board. My understanding is that right now, all treatment is designed thinking the auto immune system attacks the brain. If this exists in humans, they are thinking the brain may actually have a role in controlling the immune system.

              Maybe I am overtired, but anymore, it seems hope and positive thinking are not always welcome. I am finding it harder and harder to hang onto these thoughts the more I come to the board. Time to disappear for awhile.
              I must say I am with you on this one. I'm one person with one viewpoint and I also get very sick of mouse studies, but this on feels exciting and different. I've studied enough human anatomy and physiology to know it's always said that the lymphatic system does not penetrate the central nervous system. If these vessels exist in humans as well, then it is one major piece of information that has been missing from research studies so far.

              I've read so many studies that assume there is a disruption of the blood brain barrier and that immune cells enter the brain this way to cause inflammation in MS. If these vessels exist, then it's no longer a question of how to stop cells from entering the brain. The problem is elsewhere.

              That's just one example and I've just worked 9 hours, so I hope that made sense

              I also agree with whoever said that all opinions are welcome and valid. Just because I'm quite excited, it doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

              Comment


                #8
                There is no such thing as bad research

                I'm just happy that the research community is spending a lot of time and money to get any answers that might lead to a cure or even slow progression. The answer is going to come someday so let's all try to pray for progress toward a cure!

                Comment


                  #9
                  I don't think it's "negative" to call a spade a spade just because someone else wants to call it a diamond.

                  Even the medical and research communities recognize that caution is called for because the results of the findings have limitations. Should we all bash them as being negative?

                  Since when is having good judgement a bad thing?

                  Everyone should find things to be happy about. But building an announcement up into something it isn't, then being crushed when the reality doesn't live up to imagination and blaming researchers and reporters for being cruel because they built up false hopes -- created only by the person in their own mind -- is completely unhealthy.

                  I'm grateful for the researchers who have devoted their lives to unlocking the secrets of MS. Some research never develops into anything useful. Most research is just steps toward something else. Very little of it is blockbuster. It all has to be recognized realistically for what it is.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks and an apology

                    Sorry for the length. But due to my little tantrum last week, felt Ineeded to explain.


                    I do agree that everyone is entitled to express theiropinions, negative, positive, or neutral. I think I was just disappointed that there were not many people excitedabout this anatomical discovery in mice. Can’t believe I even wrote those words in the same sentence, “excitedby mice”! Only excitement they usuallyget from me is to yell for my husband.

                    To me, realism, pessimism, and optimism are separatethings.
                    • Realism says this study was in mice and needs to be replicated in humans, which will take years. And being cautious is very understandable and depending on one’s own psyche, can be critical.
                    • Pessimism is shooting the research down because it was in mice, before the research is even completed in humans.
                    • Optimism is thinking this research could potentially lead to new treatment or dare I utter it, a cure. And this optimism can contain excitement,without being dangerous.
                    • Dangerous and unwarranted optimism has an unrealistic component to it. It is thatI do change how I live right now, because I know this is the answer to everything. So forget healthy living,taking MS meds, and doing whatever else I can to sustain where I am now in the disease course. My MS will be gone soon. We all know this is the area where fortunes have been made on “fad” treatments and cures.

                    Mamabug – thanks for trying to start a discussion thread on the topic.
                    Originally posted by 22cyclist View Post
                    there are positive people on here like me
                    Lisa
                    Lisa - thanks. You are someone I admire tremendously. You have been to hell and back, but your strength and attitude always shine thru. I know you have your rough patches and get down sometimes like all of us, but you fight thru them and always manage to bring yourself back and let the sunshine again. It is inspiring to me.


                    Originally posted by KatieAgain View Post
                    Bottomline...IMHO, everyone should be entitled to express an opinion without fear of ridicule. I am clearly in the "pessimistic and realist"group. And honestly...I hate being sterotyped too. I just try to steer clear of many posts that I simply don't agree with.
                    ...... The written word is open to much interpretation.


                    Katie – Thanks for the advice, always welcome. I am a realist, and sometimes, that realism leans toward pessimism, but most times, my realism leaves me neutral, and occasionally open to optimism. Both parents were realists, Mom and optimist, Dad a pessimist. So I guess I wound up in the neutral categorya lot, with some lean toward optimism.
                    Also, a big thanks for the reminder on the written word. I think what hit me is that in the3 separate posts that were started, there wasn’t much excitement and definitely pessimism. I was a little more excited in that with most failed mouse experiments, it is on how drugs impact the mice successfully, but fail in humans. I always stay cautious on the drug studies until I see them in humans. But this was anatomical news, a very different type of news. As one article said, a possible change to textbooks that are 30-40 years old.
                    PositiveMS – thanks for the post. I am glad to see you are also following this with a little excitement.
                    Grammy2many – I second the thanks for the research funding. I also believe they will find a cure someday, even if not in our lifetime. Since you are a grammy to many, hopefully in your children’s or grandchildren’s lifetime should they ever need it. I pray not.

                    Originally posted by jreagan70 View Post
                    Even if this pans out for humans, it's just one pathway and onepiece of complex human physiology. Probably not the Holy Grail.

                    In MS the immune system IS healthy. It's just misdirected. If it weren't working so well, the immune system wouldn't be strong enough to do so much damage in autoimmunity.

                    Ifthis lymphatic pathway exists in humans, it's alreadyfunctioning under the current understanding of autoimmunity and inflammation.If if exists, it's working in our bodies right now. The discovery doesn't change anything for people with MS, and it doesn't mean anything as far as howwe live our lives.
                    Originally posted by jreagan70 View Post


                    Jreagan70 – My hope is that this does mean something toMS patients and how we live our lives at some future point. My reaction was toa combination of threads. I did take your response in this thread as a response that would shut down any dialogue mamabag was trying to start. I interpreted this part of your post as communicating there is no point in discussing. In my haste to respond, I probably killed the dialogue myself. I sincerely apologize for inferring a meaning and reacting to it, without the benefit of discussion. Here is where Katie’s reminder on written word is invaluable to me. And other reminders to myself of reasons not to post:

                    • when I should be sleeping
                    • when “jonesing” for my next Tysabri infusion
                    • I can’t interpret lack of posts as a lackof interest
                    • I can’t infer meaning or intent on anyone elses’ post.

                    Originally posted by jreagan70 View Post
                    I don't think it's"negative" to call a spade a spade just because someone else wants tocall it a diamond.

                    Even the medical and research communities recognize that caution is called forbecause the results of the findings have limitations. Should we all bash themas being negative?

                    Since when is having good judgement a bad thing?

                    Everyone should find things to be happy about. But building an announcement upinto something it isn't, then being crushed when the reality doesn't live up to imagination and blaming rresearchers and reporters for being cruel because they built up false hopes
                    Originally posted by jreagan70 View Post

                    Jreagan70 – this is where I do disagree with some of your post. The originator of this thread used the words hope and potential. I didn’t see any building up of expectations. A person can be realistic, optimistic, excited, and cautious at the same time. I do agree with you that there is dangerous optimism, but I didn’t see that being expressed here, no diamond present. Anyway, I do see you are trying to do a favor and prevent overhype and future cynicism - thank you.


                    I debated on whether to post, but decided that as everyone has said, all opinions are welcome. And all of the above is just that, my emotions and my opinions, whether people agree/disagree or could care less.

                    Kathy
                    DX 01/06, currently on Tysabri

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jreagan70 View Post

                      If this lymphatic pathway exists in humans, it's already functioning under the current understanding of autoimmunity and inflammation. If if exists, it's working in our bodies right now. The discovery doesn't change anything for people with MS, and it doesn't mean anything as far as how we live our lives.
                      I thought a lot about your post Reagan70. You make some good points. I have to disagree just a bit on this discovery making no difference. We don't know yet what it holds. I think studying what happens in normal (non MS) lymphatic ducts and comparing to what happens in these lymphatic ducts in various diseases would be a great start to seeing if there is a malfunction in these ducts in humans. IF there it is connected to MS somehow. It might not have any significance. We don't know yet.

                      It's not going to change anyone's life right now, and maybe not ever, but I find it exciting that new research can be done with the new information.

                      The study was done on mice, yes, but we are both mammals, and I read that some preliminary analyses of human meningeal tissues has shown similar structures in human brains.

                      I'm not dancing a jig yet, that's for sure, but the fact that a new part of human anatomy has been discovered is exciting in itself.

                      Comment

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