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    How do you get a doctor to take you seriously?

    Hello. This is my first post & I apologize in advance because it will be lengthy.

    A bit about my past & current medical history: I have had two brain surgeries to remove a benign but recurring brain tumor, once in 1993 and again in 2011. According to my neurosurgeon and based on what inexperienced during the 18 years between surgeries and the first three years after the second, I should not have (and did not) suffer any negative post-surgical effects except for minor facial nerve damage & 75% hearing loss in my left ear that was unavoidable due to the tumor's location.

    I suffer from frequent migraines and have since childhood, and am currently being treated for those. I also have fibromyalgia and a herniated disc at L4/L5 that I see a pain specialist for monthly. I also have four children, the last three of whom were delivered by C-section in 2007, 2009, and 2011. That, in a nutshell, is my significant medical history according to my official medical records.

    However. Over the past year/eighteen months, things just haven't been right. My feet have been burning/tingling/going numb a lot, in ways they never have before and it feels different than the pain that I'm familiar with from my back injury. I have also been experiencing the same numbness and tingling in my arms and hands, especially in my ring and little fingers.

    I am having a lot of cognitive dysfunction. My vocabulary is huge and I have always been incredibly articulate but now I get stuck and can't even tell my kids to put their dirty dishes in the sink because I can't find the word "sink" when I get there while I'm speaking the sentence out loud. I'll forget conversations that I've had with my husband or oldest daughter all the time & they think it's because I'm not listening to them or paying attention, but really it's just that I couldn't retain the information.

    I'm exhausted all the time. More than I was when I had a newborn and two toddlers. I wake up in the morning feeling like I got hit by a bus.

    I woke up one morning last fall and it felt like while I was sleeping someone had removed my arms and filled them with warm, buzzy sawdust, and then reattached them. They didn't really feel like they were entirely a part of me anymore, even though they still did what I told them to do. They felt that way for about a month.

    When I talked to my doctor about it she ordered a nerve conduction test to check for carpal tunnel & a cervical X-ray to see if anything was out of place in my C-spine, but both of those came back normal. I told her, "I know this is going to make me sound like a total hypochondriac, but I was wondering if it would be worth exploring the possibility of MS?" To her credit, although she kinda rolled her eyes, she didn't brush me off immediately. What she did was order my last routine brain MRI results (I have them yearly due to my history) and when they showed no lesions she said, "No lesions, no MS."

    I know that there are so many things that could be causing my symptoms, but what I've shared here is honestly just the tip of the iceberg for me symptomatically. I worked for years in nursing homes closely with several MS patients and have known quite a few people in my personal life with MS and right now with everything that is going on with me, I see myself in what I saw with them.

    Right now I just want to talk to a doctor who will take my concerns seriously, who will listen to my symptoms, who I can feel safe sharing my concerns with, and who will order the right tests and work with me to find or rule out a diagnosis. I have found a doctor that I want to see, one with glowing patient reviews, but I need a referral to see her and I don't think that my "no lesions, no MS" doctor takes me seriously enough at this point to give me that referral.

    How do you start a dialogue with a doctor to convince them that you're not being a hypochondriac, that all of your weird little symptoms are actually impacting your quality of life and ability to care for your family, and get them to engage with you and become a proactive part of your medical care?

    Thank you for reading!

    #2
    hi SuburBint!
    so sorry you're going through all this!
    what you described, i've had gone through all that! strange! except my brain tumor hasn't returned, surgery in 2007, though i've not had an MRI in 4+ yrs. didn't know benign ones grew back. was it in the same spot? (hmm, now you've got me wondering if i need to ask dr. about this instead of taking the boatload of meds for the migraines and still having 3 or more a mo. that have lasted for days!

    we've moved a lot, so it's made changing drs. easier. though my original GP when i was dxd was super! he really listened and checked out all my problems (didn't always have answers, but at least tried)

    if this dr. doesn't believe your numbness and tingling to be a problem (bet she would if it was her!), just politely ask for a referral to a neuro or another dr.
    ask around or contact MS Society to see who's near you.
    perhaps in asking for a referral you'll be taken seriously and treated more extensively by this dr. (if you want to stay) or just insist on a referral if you're tired of trying to convince her.

    i had the numb hands & feet, that led to numb arms & legs, until one morning i jumped out of bed and landed on the floor because my whole left side was numb! it was so bad, dr thought i'd had a stroke!
    hopefully, yours will take you seriously before / if that happens to you.

    another thought, document your sxs (symptoms) daily. keep track like 'right hand tingling from 2 pm to bedtime' or whatever. if they see how often and perhaps even a pattern, you may be taken more seriously.

    hope that helped some.

    praying that you get the care you need!

    take care & God bless ya!
    "All things are possible for those who believe." Jesus

    Comment


      #3
      Pee on him to establish dominance.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by BadAttitude View Post
        Pee on him to establish dominance.
        Hmmm... well, considering that I currently have the bladder control of a geriatric chihuahua, that just might end up happening.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by SuburBint View Post
          Hmmm... well, considering that I currently have the bladder control of a geriatric chihuahua, that just might end up happening.
          I'm sorry; I missed that the offending doc was a female. You say she rolled her eyes at you!? SHE ROLLED HER EYES AT YOU!?! I wonder how she felt when and if she encountered a paternalistic attitude while in med school...because she just foisted the same thing on you. >:-(
          (Why do we not have an angy looking emoticon on this website? Are we not allowed to be angry? Is it too threatening to acknowledge that people get angry? What is up with that, MSWorld?)

          THAT is the first thing I would call her out on, as evidence that she is not taking you seriously. You might mention that her having a medical degree is no proof of her competency at patient relations, and that no doctor discounts patient information in the search for an accurate diagnosis. What an arrogant buffoon. And why do you need a referral anyway? Is that a doctor requirement or an insurance policy/contract requirement? Because I found my current neuro ON MY OWN when my last neuro proved too laissez faire and dismissive for my taste upon being told my concerns.

          That doctor actually snorted when I declined the offer of Copaxone to replace Avonex, assuming my given reasons for not wanting the side effect of skin necrosis was out of vanity. Um, no, Doctor Sexist, I don't want daily sub-Q injections of a substance known to have that significant side effect, being a sensitive skinned caucasian (redhead). Even mosquito bites turn into volcanoes on me; Why would I tolerate that crap willingly when there are other alternatives out there? Well, nuts on that jackwagon; I went looking for another neuro on my own at a teaching hospital, who ultimately prescribed me the wonder drug (for me) Tysabri. And it kept me relapse free for seven years after Avonex lost efficacy. You've got to be your own advocate.

          I'm still with that neuro after having to go off of Tysabri when it became contraindicated for me based on risk factor. I just finished my first round of Lemtrada and so far, so good. Thank you Doctor Eubank! <-- I named him in my post because he is an awesome neuro and I am grateful for his aggressive treatment philosophy. That's not a bad thing...is it? Wanting to publicly recognize a doc for good treatment?

          Post edited per Guideline #4 - Keep it clean

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by BadAttitude View Post
            I'm sorry; I missed that the offending doc was a female. You say she rolled her eyes at you!? SHE ROLLED HER EYES AT YOU!?! I wonder how she felt when and if she encountered a paternalistic attitude while in med school...because she just foisted the same thing on you. >:-(
            (Why do we not have an angy looking emoticon on this website? Are we not allowed to be angry? Is it too threatening to acknowledge that people get angry? What is up with that, MSWorld?)

            THAT is the first thing I would call her out on, as evidence that she is not taking you seriously. You might mention that her having a medical degree is no proof of her competency at patient relations, and that no doctor discounts patient information in the search for an accurate diagnosis. What an arrogant buffoon. And why do you need a referral anyway? Is that a doctor requirement or an insurance policy/contract requirement? Because I found my current neuro ON MY OWN when my last neuro proved too laissez faire and dismissive for my taste upon being told my concerns.

            That doctor actually snorted when I declined the offer of Copaxone to replace Avonex, assuming my given reasons for not wanting the side effect of skin necrosis was out of vanity. Um, no, Doctor Sexist, I don't want daily sub-Q injections of a substance known to have that significant side effect, being a sensitive skinned caucasian (redhead). Even mosquito bites turn into volcanoes on me; Why would I tolerate that stuff willingly when there are other alternatives out there? Well, nuts on that jackwagon; I went looking for another neuro on my own at a teaching hospital, who ultimately prescribed me the wonder drug (for me) Tysabri. And it kept me relapse free for seven years after Avonex lost efficacy. You've got to be your own advocate.

            I'm still with that neuro after having to go off of Tysabri when it became contraindicated for me based on risk factor. I just finished my first round of Lemtrada and so far, so good. Thank you Doctor Eubank! <-- I named him in my post because he is an awesome neuro and I am grateful for his aggressive treatment philosophy. That's not a bad thing...is it? Wanting to publicly recognize a doc for good treatment?

            Post edited per Guideline #4 - Keep it clean
            Oops. Sorry I'll try again:
            What the heckity dig dang dog in berserkers is wrong with her?

            Comment


              #7
              Hi

              As another poster said, you are your own best advocate, living with this 24/7.
              I have a lot of the same problems, but I take Nuvigil every day for the exhaustion issue, and it helps.

              Once my Neuro saw that I did my homework, and knew what I was talking about, he would make suggestions, but always went with what I wanted to do.
              I would get rid of a doc that rolled her eyes, and didn't take me seriously.

              Good luck.

              Comment


                #8
                Sometimes, when a patient brings up a diagnosis, a physycian thinks you have been googling symptoms and decide then to not take something serious enough. They jump to the anxiety or hypochondriac diagnosis.

                I am guessing you either need the referral based on your insurance or the neuro office requirement.

                I would remind your doctor that with all your surgeries, you know your body and when something is not right. Ask for a referall to the neurologist so that they can explore potential causes given your prior brain surgery. I wouldn't mention the MS, just that you want answers.

                If she refuses, ask her what she is going to do to find out a cause. If she says she feels it is anxiety, ask her how she came to that diagnosis. Let her know you don't feel anxious and want comprehensive testing to rule out other causes. Neurologists order a bunch of blood work to rule out other diseases that mimic MS.

                Without brain lesions, it could be tough to get an MS diagnosis. But at a minimum, you deserve to be taken serious and your symptoms explored.
                Kathy
                DX 01/06, currently on Tysabri

                Comment


                  #9
                  First of all, thank you to everyone who has replied. I have been feeling so frustrated and just stuck for the past few months and it isn't doing any favors for my mental health. Simply finding these message boards has been a great mood lifter.

                  @poohb3ar - My tumor is an benign epidermoid tumor which means that is is comprised of skin cells that are growing in my brain. I've had it since very early embryological growth when, while the collection of future Suburbint cells were busily deciding what they were going to be when they grew up, one of them got confused and I ended up with a skin cell in my brain. It is recurring because it grows around cranial nerves 7 and 8 on the left side of my brain and the only way to remove it completely would be to sever those nerves, leaving me completely deaf in my left ear and the left side of my face entirely paralysed. At the time of my first surgery, very little was known about these types of tumors, so rather than leaving a 15 year-old girl looking like a stroke victim, my neurosurgeon removed as much as he could without severing the nerve and left a small portion behind. None of us expected it to grow back, but 18 years later I was in the OR again. This time, however, my surgeon said he thinks he got it all due to advances in surgical techniques (and the fact that he is a world-renowned brain tumor specialist, what up Barrows Neurological Center?) so hopefully I won't be doing this again in another 15 - 20 years. All this to say, the regrow of benign tumors is extremely rare and only occurred in my case because, well, it was skin & as we all know, skin keeps on a'growin!

                  I do keep a symptom log, and have for months. It started out very precise and I guess you could say even clinical, but it has now devolved into, "9am: feet feel like angry elves have set up camp inside them and are building fires out of hot needles while simultaneously zapping me with tiny elven tasers. That sucks." But that's more honest to my experience than "9am: bilateral burning, numbness and shocking sensation in both feet."

                  @BadAttitude - What the heckity dig dang dog in berserkers indeed. She didn't used to be like this. She's been our family PCP for a decade and when we first started seeing her, I absolutely lurved her. She has always been very no nonsense, but she used to be good about things like listening & I felt like she actually cared about me as a human being. I know she's been through some ish in the past couple years with her daughter & I think she's having some trouble keeping her practice afloat, but she's going to have ever-so-much more trouble keeping her practice when patients start leaving due to her completely abandoning her bedside manner.

                  Sadly, yes, I do need a referral for insurance purposes. Although, if I can't get a referral, I'm beginning to consider asking my mum if she will pay for me to see the neuro that I want to see as my birthday gift this year. She always gives lovely birthday gifts, and she is almost as eager as I am to get the ball rolling on this.

                  @Tomjadg - I know, I do need to be my own advocate. And I'm trying. Right now I'm just tired and discouraged, and I just want my doctor to do her bloody job! We've done things her way; now let's try mine. I know I should start looking for a new PCP, but lord does that sound exhausting.

                  @pennstater - What tends to shut doctors down even faster than the "I was looking online and..." intro to symptom complaints is when your doctor finds out that you come from a nursing background (like I do.) Many doctors take it sooooooo personally when nurses attempt to diagnose & even though I never actually got my RN (due to family circumstances, not cos I couldn't hack it ) I absolutely aced my anatomy & physiology classes, the modules on different diseases and disease processes, microbiology, etc. I understand how the human body works, and due to my own medical history I have had to understand how the human body works. I am also incredibly in tune with my body and I do know when something is wrong and needs to be investigated. I'm not a hypochondriac, I'm sick. It would be nice if my doctor trusted me enough to believe that I know the difference, given that every single time I have been in her office with a complaint, there has been an actual thing wrong with me.

                  I have an appointment with my back doctor tomorrow, and I may talk to him about it. He has always been kind and he might hook me up with a referral if I let him know that I feel that I've reached a dead end with my primary care. I suppose it's worth a shot. I'm just nervous about having yet another doctor view me as over-reactive hypochondriac. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi, a few thoughts for you.

                    Has any doctor done blood work on you? Low B 12 can mimic MS symptoms. That was one of the first things my neuro did to rule it out. Perhaps your PCP would be willing to start there to get to the bottom of your issues.

                    Also, could you get the surgeon who operated on your tumors to do the referral to a neuro? The symptoms seem based in the nervous system, it is difficult to believe any doctor wouldn't want you to see a specialist as a starting point for determining a diagnosis.

                    Third, I worked in a psychiatric hospital for adolescents and the doctors there were wonderful. One told us this. Consider your doctor the same way you do your mechanic, or your plumber or the person who cuts your grass. You hire them the same way. And, if you are not satisfied with the service they deliver, fire them and get another doctor, just like you would any other profession. If your PCP isn't delivering a satisfactory service to you now, may be time to give her the boot.

                    Hope you find out what is causing all of this. Don't give up. The answer is out there with some doctor and you will find it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Agree with Pennstater. Doctors (generally) respond best to "I don't know what is wrong, but a, b,c feels very bad."
                      If you mention the word "Google" they'll roll their eyes.
                      I remember going to hospital once, told the private patient duty doctor I had MS and I needed steroids because I couldn't walk.

                      You'd have thought I'd slapped her. Soooo insulted. "What do you know about it?" Etc.

                      Four hours later, I was 'roided up and walking. And she charged me $350.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I find the more stoic, the better. If you attach emotion when you are describing your symptoms, that's when the hypochondriac dx comes along.

                        In addition to the last 2 posts, which were very good advice, I would recommend focusing on one or two symptoms. Too many and you are just considered a whiner. If the doc is just a total jerk,walk. Right now I'm in a very small town and there arent many doctors. I now know what it's like to have to put up with these things

                        Comment


                          #13
                          @KSeraSera - We have done blood work & everything is within normal limits, so....

                          Cant get my neurosurgeon's office to return my calls. Or even make a follow-up appointment with me. Dude had his fingers in my brain and his gatekeepers won't let me in to see him or even pass on a message? For a world-renowned clinic like Barrows, that is beyond reprehensible. I'm trying them again today & if my squeaky wheel doesn't get greased, I will start complaining loudly online.

                          And thank you. I know it really is time to find a new PCP.

                          @ Thinkimjob - I would never mention Google to a doctor! Or WebMD. I may be foggy, but I'm not completely mad!

                          @ palmtree - The trouble I've found with mentioning only one or two symptoms is that they run a test or two, can't find a cause, then send me to a specialist who runs another couple of tests, can't find a cause, and sends me to whichever form of therapy he feels is best. I had hoped a full list of "this is everything that I am dealing with, perhaps they are somehow connected?" might get me somewhere, but alas, I was mistaken.

                          Oh well. I got my back doctor to send me for both thoracic and lumbar mris and am currently waiting on the results. We'll see what they say.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            &quot;she rolled her eyes at you?&quot;

                            Hi SuberBlint, it's Maggie.

                            I'm so sorry about what you're going through.

                            I never thought about what palmtree said before--not attaching emotion to the description of symptoms. I have been doing that with my terrible chronic back pain. I'm going to try STOPPING--if I can.

                            The reason I titled my post to your thread "she rolled her eyes at you?" is that I was echoing what you first said and then what BadAttitude said: "what the heckity is wrong with her?"

                            I believe that doctors should be better listeners and more empathetic, not just to be better people but to be better DOCTORS.

                            SuberBlint, if you haven't looked at Seasha's thread titled "how do we get doctors to be better listeners?" or if you haven't looked at my thread on my chronic back pain (I haven't been able to get anyone to take it seriously either) these may help you at least know you are not alone!

                            I will be sending you good thoughts and good luck.

                            Maggie

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