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rudeness of the highest order

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    #16
    If rudeness were painful, the pharmacies would have already run out of Vicodin and Percocet.

    I am sorry this man was so inconsiderate, but I suspect he would have done it even if you weren't on a scooter.
    Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly.

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      #17
      I have been a victim of rudeness in a wheelchair:

      While shopping at a mall with my daughter (who is a physician) I was holding an item to purchase. A clerk asked my daughter, "is she going to buy that?", my daughter replied, "why don't you ask her?"

      At a recent mammogram my husband was wheeling me in and the person holding the johnny asked my husband, "can she undress herself?". Unfortunately my husbabd just answeres "yes".

      Then you get the clerks that when they do speak to you, they do so in a very loud voice, like you're either hard of hearing, or have difficulty understanding.

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        #18
        Whenever I'm on my scooter, I find that people always offer to help me. I've never had anyone make a rude comment, or had anyone be downright rude.

        One thing that always happens is that people walking toward me, with their I-Phone, Smart Phone, etc., are busy texting and it's like I'm invisible, because I'm out of their line of vision on the scooter! So rather than toot my little horn, I stop abruptly, and they almost walk into me because they aren't paying attention. When they do stop, they look at me like I have two heads, walk around me, with head down, still texting, until they run into the next person. I just laugh to myself, because they run into people who are walking toward them as well.

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          #19
          Kind of an opposite to most of your experiences but rude just the same.

          This happened to me about 5 years ago when I could still walk short distances with a cane. I parked in a handicapped space at the grocery store and when I came out, I was met with a guy cursing me out from his truck because I guess I didn't look handicapped enough to him to use the parking space. (my handicapped parking permit was plainly displayed in the window). My knee jerk reaction was to see if I could teach him what it felt like to get whupped with a cane, but then, I saw the power chair in the back of his truck. I settled for disputing his lineage and got in my car and left.
          We need to watch that the natural anger we feel about having MS, or any other condition, doesn't make us forget our manners when dealing with others.

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            #20
            Originally posted by GardeningMSer View Post
            I've been aware for a while now that those of us using wheelchairs and scooters are far too often considered less than human; today I got another example.

            I was in the library, sitting on my scooter looking at shelved books and a 60 something large male comes over, reaches over my head to grab a book.

            I was p***ed! This was an incredible invasion of my space! If my scooter had a reverse mode (it is a Travelscoot, very light, no reverse) I would have run him over.

            Does anyone think he would have done this if I were on my feet and looking at a book!

            AAARRRGH!

            I had to chime in here. It doesn't matter who you are or how nice you are or how many manners you have, in a wheelchair/scooter or not. There are rude people everywhere and thankfully there are kind people as well. But people are going to be rude if that is who they are.

            I am a fool most times and won't use a scooter in the store and suffer from pain, weakness, dizziness and loss of balance sometimes. I have had carts shoved in to me, I have had people pushing on me from behind, in lines at the grocery store and I have also had several rude people in wheelchairs and scooters not have any respect for me or my space in aisles where I am pretty much smashed up to one side of the aisle already, before they even arrive (because that's who I am) and they come bounding in coming too fast and I have lost my balance and had to side step these people quite a few times and they never said they were sorry or even acknowledged I was there and I can promise you I wasn't in their way or being selfish or texting or anything else while shopping. However, I didn't say anything to them about their rudeness.

            At the same token I would let someone know if I needed to get a book above them or near them no matter who they are - in a wheelchair/scooter or not.

            Point is, you can get treated rudely no matter what, even if you practice being kind and respectful, even when you aren't in a wheelchair.

            Have a Marvelous Monday everyone.
            Hugs,
            Danielle
            LDN'er since 2007

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              #21
              Originally posted by choco View Post
              I do not think GardeningMSer is having a pity party in the least. If a person was standing in front of a book selection and another person came along and reached over to get a book and in the process stretched their arm inches from the face of that person standing, that would be considered downright rude. Why does it make it any different for someone sitting?
              I totally agree -- this touches on disability rights, and common (not so common now) courtesy. You'd never climb over someone in a church pew without saying excuse me, or push someone aside in line at the movies to read a poster behind them, or knock them over to read the bus schedule in a kiosk, and this situation is much the same thing. Oh -- if you weren't raised in a barn, that is

              A friend helping me shop tried to get a salesperson to acknowledge me in my scooter. Her explanation when she wasn't successful: "Well, you're kinda invisible down there to me, too." Instead of saying that out loud, people ought to take that time to educate themselves.

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                #22
                I'm not in a W/C but am short and have had this kind of thing happen to me. Some people haven't been taught simple courtesy. I'm sure I'm guilty of stepping over the line in the "impolite" arena. Sometimes I'm tired and sometimes I just don't think before I act. When someone is impolite, I try to cut them a little slack as I hope when I am inconsiderate, someone will cut me a little slack, too. Sorry this happened to you.

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                  #23
                  personal space

                  I've read all these posts from a little different perspective. Here's why:

                  I've lived in China for almost 20 years now, and I still haven't gotten used to the lack of personal space here. It seems that the general rule of thumb is that if you don't touch the other person, it's totally fine. I can't even begin to count the times when I've had to slow down (this was before I got MS) to prevent myself from stepping on the back of someone's shoes because they cut so close in front of me and then started walking immediately in front. Or they cut across me coming within a hair of bumping into me but always managing to not make contact.

                  Yes, the generally accepted amount of personal space in China is about as close to zero as you can come without actually making contact. So reaching for a book - what's the problem? I didn't touch you! Pulling out in front of you in a parking lot or even at an intersection - I didn't scrape your car! Why are you getting upset?

                  Every day - I mean that, every single day I have to remind myself that I'm not in the States, so I shouldn't expect the people around me to act like they're from the States.

                  Of course, there's good reason for the lack of personal space in China. Just think what your life would be like with four times the number of people around you, in the same amount of space!

                  That said, yes, it's really sad when people who should know better don't abide by the generally accepted rules of behavior in their own country!
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  RRMS, dx May 2013, on Gilenya from May '13 - Aug. 14
                  Currently following Dr. Jelinek's OMS (Overcoming MS) plan

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                    #24
                    ^^ That goes for markets/stores in Chinatowns in western countries as well. I am totally okay with cultural norms in these instances.

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                      #25
                      Thanks, miwealia.

                      I've been mystified reading this thread because the behavior the OP describes doesn't seem all that bad to me. Rude, for sure, but more clueless and ignorant than hostile or mean-spirited.

                      But then again, I live in NYC. We stand very close to each other here on the subway and I get physically bumped into, pushed aside, leaned into, and cut off all the time.

                      But indeed nothing is as bad as what I experienced when I was at the front of a queue in China when an elderly lady stood so close behind me as to be in full bodily contact with my entire back body and was pushing me up against the counter! It was quite something.

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                        #26
                        I also live in a large densely populated city. My reaction was the same. There seem to be new norms. If someone needed a book and my wheelchair was blocking his way, I would have said, "oh, I'm sorry let me move so you can get your book."

                        I had an experience that was at the opposite end of the spectrum. There is a pool at the University where I've been swimming most of my adult life. One day I wanted to go swimming but it was a diaper day. That was the first time I tried to brave an open locker room diapers on. I chose the most secluded part of the locker room hoping to get some privacy.

                        I hung my belongings on the hooks on the wall and began to unpack my suit, goggles, cap and towel. A woman emerged from the locker room and said, "I don't like people watching me dress". I thought, 'well that makes two of us and whatever hang ups she had about anyone seeing her body seemed trivial compared to the extreme fatigue I felt that day and with diapers no less, can't she see I have a cane?'

                        So I continued to organize my swimwear. And then, as if she was starting a friendly conversation, she asked, "are you a professor here?'"

                        I said, "no, I'm an alumna."

                        Then she said, what was your specialty? RUDE BEHAVIOR?"

                        From her point of view, I was just being obnoxious and inconsiderate. But, to me, it felt like an unwarranted assalt. It's an open locker room. We shower and dress in each other's presence all the time. To expect someone to move because you don't like your body image seemed like an excessive demand. I would like to have told her I'm wearing diapers and I have to catch. And, by the way, I have MS. BUT When I'm really tired my ability to verbalized things goes out the window.

                        So I just moved and hope I never see her again.

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                          #27
                          I have to do the court report for the paper. Two cretins up on multiple charged of theft etc we're outside were ho-ho-ing at my hobbling progress, or lack thereof.
                          "At least I'm not going to jail, you, begins with a d ends in a heads."
                          One plus with court reporting, you've seen them all before, same lot every month, and you know when the axe is going to fall. And fall it did.

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                            #28
                            Habits

                            Originally posted by Special Kay View Post
                            But indeed nothing is as bad as what I experienced when I was at the front of a queue in China when an elderly lady stood so close behind me as to be in full bodily contact with my entire back body and was pushing me up against the counter! It was quite something.
                            LOL Yes, I should've qualified my description as the norm when you're walking on the street. When you're lined up - or supposed to be lined up! - you're fair game for anyone who has sharper elbows or a persistent push.

                            But let me see if I can put these little old ladies who push and shove into perspective. They lived through the hell of the Chinese civil war in the 40's, the Great Leap Forward in the 50's when literally millions of people starved to death, and then the total madness and chaos of the Cultural Revolution in the 60's-70's. These little old ladies survived against tremendous odds when millions others died, only because they developed certain necessary survival skills, including sharp elbows and an incessant push to get to the front of the line to get something to eat for themselves or their family.

                            Strong habits born of the need to survive die hard when life gets easier and they're not necessary any longer.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            RRMS, dx May 2013, on Gilenya from May '13 - Aug. 14
                            Currently following Dr. Jelinek's OMS (Overcoming MS) plan

                            Comment


                              #29
                              miwealia - Great point of view. And yes, 20th century Chinese history is shocking and extraordinary and worth learning about for all of us.

                              As to palmtree, that's horrible yet interesting how what was perceived by the other woman as rude behavior in you triggered her own terribly rude behavior. Rudeness (even perceived) engenders more rudeness.

                              In the spirit of Gandhi's teachings, I personally find it worth remembering that the only way to increase politeness (or anything!) in the world is to practice it oneself.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Special Kay View Post
                                miwealia - Great point of view. And yes, 20th century Chinese history is shocking and extraordinary and worth learning about for all of us.

                                As to palmtree, that's horrible yet interesting how what was perceived by the other woman as rude behavior in you triggered her own terribly rude behavior. Rudeness (even perceived) engenders more rudeness.

                                In the spirit of Gandhi's teachings, I personally find it worth remembering that the only way to increase politeness (or anything!) in the world is to practice it oneself.
                                GREAT PERSPECTIVE! Thank you.

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