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    Supervisor Insensitive to Cognitive Issues

    My direct supervisor things that my cognitive issues are my efforts to avoid going to meetings. I have told him that I have MS a couple of years ago. This past year, I seem to be unable to remember important events like staff meetings or doctors appointments or even something I wrote down that I needed to do. I miss meetings because I "forget" that I need to adjust myself to get there. I am usually always late if I do remember and what makes it worse, I forget to look at my calendar to see where I should be! It is not like forgetting, its like it does not even occur to me, like I don't even remember writing it down! No wonder he does not believe me. And, of course it is not all the time.

    But I am 60 years old, I don't know how to show him that this is a cognitive problem not a disciplinary one. He is probably young enough to be, well, my nephew if not my son. How do we talk about our memory loss, forgetfullness, confusion, missed meetings and inability to follow through and complete a project on time at work?

    I really want to work for myself, but it takes years to build up a customer base for the skills that I have (writing, teaching, training). Anybody know any articles that I can take to him about people with MS and memory?

    Thanks

    #2
    Write everything down, I use a Palm Pilot, but a Smart Phone will work well also. Set the alarm for anything you want/need to do.

    You may be able to get him to understand, but some people just aren't able to think about anyone but themselves. It can be a major challenge.
    Bill
    Scuba, true meaning of Life! USS Wilkes Barre 91, USS Monitor 96, 97, 99 .. Andrea Doria 96, 98 .. San Francisco Maru 09

    Comment


      #3
      I'm 20, but I have alot of cognitive issues as well, and I think that may be one of the hardest symptoms for other people to understand. I have a notebook that I write everything down in. EVERYTHING. I put stars by the stuff I really need to remember. But, like you, sometimes I just forget to look at my notebook. So I also set alarms on my phone reminding me of the bug stuff like classes and work and reminding me to look at my notebook. One thing I find that helps is if you can get into some type of routine. The more non-routine things you have in your life, the harder it is going to be to remember. I know this probably will not fly, but maybe you could ask your supervisor if she could schedule all meeting for 2:00 or something. That way, at 1:30 you'll think "do I have a meeting at 2:00?" And then you could check. If it's the same time every day it will be easier to remember. I hope I helped. I know coworkers can be kind of cold and uniformed sometimes. Hang in there.

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry that you’re having some problems at work. I know you came here for support and sympathy, with the idea that if you could just educate your supervisor that you don’t have a disciplinary problem, your inability to do your job will be understood and excused.

        Unfortunately, "memory loss, forgetfulness, confusion, missed meetings and inability to follow through and complete a project on time” mean that you aren’t properly doing the job that you’re being paid to do. The fact that your poor performance isn’t intentional doesn’t make it acceptable. Explaining the reason behind your poor performance – whether cognitive or disciplinary – doesn't fix it. Your supervisor isn't being "insensitive" by expecting you to perform your job properly. It has nothing to do with your him being "unable to think of anyone but himself." Your employer is entitled to have you remedy the problems -- whatever's causing them -- and perform up to standard.

        It’s sometimes relatively easy for an employer to make reasonable accommodations for an employee with a physical problem. It’s much more difficult to make reasonable accommodations for cognitive problems. Because, after the accommodations are made, the employee still has to be able to perform their job properly. That’s hard to do with cognitive problems.

        Your failure to correctly perform the functions of your job can’t be explained away and excused just by taking some articles to your supervisor. You have to find a way to do your job. If you believe you can improve your performance to an acceptable level by being granted reasonable accommodations, you’re going to have to know what accommodations you need and formally ask for them. Your employer is the entity who decides what’s reasonable for them. They don’t have to give you everything you ask for if something is an undue hardship for the company.

        If your cognitive issues prevent you from properly performing your job (even with reasonable accommodations), are you sure that you have the cognitive ability to run your own business? If not, then it might be time to consider applying for disability. That isn’t what you wanted to hear, but it could turn out to be the most reasonable and realistic outcome.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Redwings View Post
          Sorry that you’re having some problems at work. I know you came here for support and sympathy, with the idea that if you could just educate your supervisor that you don’t have a disciplinary problem, your inability to do your job will be understood and excused.

          Unfortunately, "memory loss, forgetfulness, confusion, missed meetings and inability to follow through and complete a project on time” mean that you aren’t properly doing the job that you’re being paid to do. The fact that your poor performance isn’t intentional doesn’t make it acceptable. Explaining the reason behind your poor performance – whether cognitive or disciplinary – doesn't fix it. Your supervisor isn't being "insensitive" by expecting you to perform your job properly. It has nothing to do with your him being "unable to think of anyone but himself." Your employer is entitled to have you remedy the problems -- whatever's causing them -- and perform up to standard.

          It’s sometimes relatively easy for an employer to make reasonable accommodations for an employee with a physical problem. It’s much more difficult to make reasonable accommodations for cognitive problems. Because, after the accommodations are made, the employee still has to be able to perform their job properly. That’s hard to do with cognitive problems.

          Your failure to correctly perform the functions of your job can’t be explained away and excused just by taking some articles to your supervisor. You have to find a way to do your job. If you believe you can improve your performance to an acceptable level by being granted reasonable accommodations, you’re going to have to know what accommodations you need and formally ask for them. Your employer is the entity who decides what’s reasonable for them. They don’t have to give you everything you ask for if something is an undue hardship for the company.

          If your cognitive issues prevent you from properly performing your job (even with reasonable accommodations), are you sure that you have the cognitive ability to run your own business? If not, then it might be time to consider applying for disability. That isn’t what you wanted to hear, but it could turn out to be the most reasonable and realistic outcome.
          I'm sorry for the OP, but I have to agree with Redwings. If you still can't do your job after reasonable accommodations have been made then perhaps it's time to look into disability.
          Aitch - Writer, historian, wondermom. First symptoms in my teens, DX'd in my twenties, disabled in my thirties. Still the luckiest girl in the world.

          Comment


            #6
            Forgetting is a problem

            Hi Ann,

            I have similar problems. I am an executive assistant for the General Counsel in our company and often cover for the CFO, CEO, and COO. I bring a journal with me all the time and write down things are are told to me no matter how small. I have a planner that I write down everything I need to do for the day since I hate using Outlook and often get busy and ignore the reminders. I've also developed things that will help me remember what is going on like printing calendars for everyone I could possibly cover for in case I am asked where they are or I'm right there with where a meeting is taking place and when. It is the hardest thing for me since not only do I have a great deal of fatigue from my job and MS in general the extra energy it takes to remember what I'm supposed to do makes me even more tired. The more tired I am, the less likely I will remember something. By the way, I'm 57.

            I am older than my boss by about 2 years. There are times when I'm sure he understands the frustration I have with not remembering things off the top of my head as I used to, saying names wrong, you name it I've done it. There are also those times when I think he doesn't understand.

            My MS doc had a cognitive test performed on me three months after being diagnosed which showed I was below normal for a MS patient and way below normal in the cognitive area -- the area so vital to the work I do. I brought it in and showed it to my boss. My MS doc also said he would talk to my boss if necessary to explain the symptoms. Just last week, I filed for FLMA and went over the MS docs responses with my boss. Not only does it allow me to take time off as necessary, but it legitmizes my symptoms to my boss because it states in it that I have cognitive memory problems as one of my problems. I don't know if any of these things would help in your situation, but they are worth a try. Possibly if you know someone in your HR department who can give you some guidance or would be willing to speak to your supervisor.

            I have found that most younger supervisors have never been trained in supervising. They are on the fast track to the top and they don't want employees under them who could possibly slow that process down. Three months ago, the nurse practioner for my MS doc. hit me with reality. Not a good day, but the one thing that she said that is really important is to be proactive at work. If you need to work, you need to be taking the first steps rather than your supervisor taking steps against you. Try to find ways that will best help you to remember -- keep a journal, post your meeting times for that day to the front of your monitor, look over your calendar the night before, keep a daily planner with the to-dos and cross them off as you get them done, keep your work organized - no action, filing, immediate action and reorganize throughout the day. Find new ways to retrain your brain. That's what I have to do. Most of all, get plenty of rest the night before and if you need to, take a lunch time siesta or maybe take a short walk to breath in fresh air and get rid of the stress. Stop trying to convince your boss that you have MS -- he doesn't seem to care and it only is creating you a lot of stress which only makes matters worse. I say all this because I've been through it for the past 6 months. I am being proactive and I am trying to retrain my brain. I'm better than I was three months ago, but I have a long way to go.

            You can do this. It's baby steps and patience. And, it's easier said than done.

            Good luck.

            Comment


              #7
              Ann --

              I'm really sorry about what's going on. I really am.

              And, I hate to follow that with something that sounds insensitive. But, I was someone who, at the age of 46, had to go on disability because I wasn't able to perform the job. Cognitive issues weren't a problem for me, when I wasn't in a flare, but, flares, related absences, frequent requests for FMLA, and eventully fatigue were issues.

              Perhaps there are accomodations that need to be tried. If so, then it is up to you to go through the proper channels to request them. And, yeah, as Redwing says, sometimes it's difficult to perform your job with cognitive problems, even with accomodations.

              I just have to agree that, if you are no longer able to perform the job, then maybe it's not about your supervisor being insensitive. Maybe it's just that MS is a thief and presents us with many losses. That is not your supervisor's fault.

              I'm not saying throw in the towel. If there are reasonable accomodations that can be pursued, then pursue them. But, telling him, a couple of years ago, that you have MS, doesn't sound to me like you've done what you need to do if you desire to keep your job.

              At the age of 60, this is likely tough for you. You likely have plans and needs for the income that you expected to continue to earn until you chose to retire.

              I am hopeful that there are options that you can pursue (accomodations, an early retirement package, whatever) that can either help you to keep your job, or to make the transition easier.

              But, this is not about the fact that it isn't a disciplinary problem. And, it's not about the fact that your supervisor is young enough to be your son. It's about your ability to perform the job. And, if you can't perform the job currently, then the ball is in your court to start educating yourself about what your options are and how to pursue them.

              ~ Faith
              ~ Faith
              MSWorld Volunteer -- Moderator since JUN2012
              (now a Mimibug)

              Symptoms began in JAN02
              - Dx with RRMS in OCT03, following 21 months of limbo, ruling out lots of other dx, and some "probable stroke" and "probable CNS" dx for awhile.
              - In 2008, I was back in limbo briefly, then re-dx w/ MS: JUL08
              .

              - Betaseron NOV03-AUG08; Copaxone20 SEPT08-APR15; Copaxone40 APR15-present
              - Began receiving SSDI / LTD NOV08. Not employed. I volunteer in my church and community.

              Comment


                #8
                sorry you're having these issues

                Over a year ago I was in a similar situation. I had a job that was very physical, required multi-tasking, and cognitive skills were a huge issue. I had worked for the company 34 years. I was given disciplinary action several times for performance, I kept at it, thinking that this time i'd get it right... that i'd rethink how i would remember key things. I'd get it right for a few months and then something else would happen.

                At the time i'd just turned 56 and my employer told me they'd have to let me go.. but that luckily i'd be eligible for pension. That day i felt as though my world came crashing down around me.

                I talked to my neuro and to a lawyer. My neuro wrote me a note explaining my cognitive isssues and my employer agreed to put me on medical disability for a year and then forced retirement.

                I collected medical disability, unemployment comp(because my doc said i could work-just less hours and a sedentary position), and i was approved for SSD because of my age and the fact that i had no training for that type of job.

                My year ended Dec 31.. and i'm officially retired.. and recieving my pension.. and SSD.

                During that year i contacted OVR which payed for me to go back to school to take microsoft office classes. I also looked into the WIA program through carreer links. I'm i'm now back at school taking medisoft and CMAA courses. I'm hoping at the end of the classed to apply for a part-time job with perhaps a non-profit organization. I can work and earn under $1000 a month without my SSD being affected.

                Looking back, I realize that them letting me go was probably the best thing for them to have done. It closed a door to what i thought was an essential part of my life. But it also opened another door and other possibilities.

                I hope you the best. Hugs, Barbara

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by balance View Post
                  ... Looking back, I realize that them letting me go was probably the best thing for them to have done. It closed a door to what i thought was an essential part of my life. But it also opened another door and other possibilities.

                  I hope you the best. Hugs, Barbara
                  Barbara makes a good point about opening other doors and other possibilities.

                  You may have a chance, Ann, to re-define yourself.

                  I don't want to minimize the loss that being let go would be. I still grieve not being "employable". My career was always an important part of who I was.

                  But, Barbara is pursuing education in a new area that may open new doors.

                  I am able to take naps when I need them, spend time doing what I like at home. And, volunteer.

                  I'm not really a home-body-type. It's important to me that I get out of the house, daily, and volunteer somewhere. I don't spend large amounts of hours each week doing that, due to stamina and fatigue issues. But, I get to choose where, when and how often I volunteer.

                  For me, it's:
                  • writing time, 2x per week, in a first grade classroom
                  • substitute pre-school teacher (all of their teaching staff are volunteers). One teacher has been out recovering from surgery a lot, so I've been volunteering about 4x per month there lately.
                  • play piano hymns for weekly devotions time at a nursing home,
                  • followed by 30-minute "dinner music" (classical, hymns, 20's-40's, 50's-70's, country, rag, etc) in the nursing home dining room
                  • sometimes, I "practice" my piano in the home of one of my friend's elderly mothers. She enjoys hearing me play, and, I need to practice anyways.
                  • visit/read to residents at another local nursing home
                  • tons of stuff at church (piano for worship band, teach SS and Wed evening children's classes, doing children's story Sunday mornings, etc)
                  • in summer, I volunteer for a summer children's food program.

                  Volunteering is something that has always been a part of my life, but, I get to include it in a bigger way now that I am paid by SSDI to not-work. Although I still struggle, sometimes, with the self-esteem issues that come from not being employed in a super-woman world, I also receive a lot of personal satisfaction from knowing that I still make valuable contributions to my community.

                  The convenience of being a volunteer makes taking time off for vacations or other things easy. I often had to plan vacations around work expectations and schedules, and, now, when I want time off, it's no problem.

                  Other things that I could do with my time, if I become so motivated, include:
                  - learn to play the pipe organ at church
                  - audit some classes at the local community college
                  1. music theory, maybe? (I might already know everything they'd teach. I use a lot of my music theory knowledge to improvise music when I need to play praise and worship songs from guitar chords with no piano music)
                  2. Spanish?
                  - exercise more. Go on more walks. Take a yoga class?

                  ~ Faith
                  ~ Faith
                  MSWorld Volunteer -- Moderator since JUN2012
                  (now a Mimibug)

                  Symptoms began in JAN02
                  - Dx with RRMS in OCT03, following 21 months of limbo, ruling out lots of other dx, and some "probable stroke" and "probable CNS" dx for awhile.
                  - In 2008, I was back in limbo briefly, then re-dx w/ MS: JUL08
                  .

                  - Betaseron NOV03-AUG08; Copaxone20 SEPT08-APR15; Copaxone40 APR15-present
                  - Began receiving SSDI / LTD NOV08. Not employed. I volunteer in my church and community.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Volunteering is something that has always been a part of my life, but, I get to include it in a bigger way now that I am paid by SSDI to not-work. Although I still struggle, sometimes, with the self-esteem issues that come from not being employed in a super-woman world, I also receive a lot of personal satisfaction from knowing that I still make valuable contributions to my community.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]


                    Hi Faith: Wonderful that you are volunteering in so many areas. Once I complete my classes and until I find a job, Ive also been considering volunteering.
                    Hugs, Barbara

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Good for you, Barbara. Ironic. You're taking classes and considering volunteering. I'm volunteering and considering taking classes. :-)

                      (Too busy now. Planning a bridal shower, my daughter's May wedding, a July 30-year class reunion, 2 summer trips to Canada -- Winnipeg, Saskatoon, etc.
                      * Maybe when life slows down.)

                      Both volunteering and education are things, though, that we can use for self-improvement and for contributing to others' well-being.

                      The luxury we gain from the time not working for pay allows us to use our time for those other valuable things.

                      ~ Faith
                      ~ Faith
                      MSWorld Volunteer -- Moderator since JUN2012
                      (now a Mimibug)

                      Symptoms began in JAN02
                      - Dx with RRMS in OCT03, following 21 months of limbo, ruling out lots of other dx, and some "probable stroke" and "probable CNS" dx for awhile.
                      - In 2008, I was back in limbo briefly, then re-dx w/ MS: JUL08
                      .

                      - Betaseron NOV03-AUG08; Copaxone20 SEPT08-APR15; Copaxone40 APR15-present
                      - Began receiving SSDI / LTD NOV08. Not employed. I volunteer in my church and community.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        common

                        Ann, this problem is SO common. A couple of posters noted that as an employee, you should be expected to do your job and this is a reasonable expectation from your supervisor. I bet they would not have these views if you had said that you were limited by your mobility issues or something physical. It's sad that cognition is still not considered a "disability" which is truly is.

                        I would like to remind everyone that in this day and age, employers are required to provide individuals with disability with as many accommodations as they can to help them perform well in their job. Yes, if they tried everything they could and you were still not performing your job, then absolutely time to consider leaving the job. but from your post, it doesn't sound like they have tried anything at all. this is your right - to get accommodations so you can stay at your job - whether they be additional reminders for deadlines/meetings or whatever. see if your doc can order cognitive testing and provide a letter and results to the employer. They are usually bound by law to accommodate you to a certain level.

                        And I hope that people will stop dismissing cognitive problems - cognitive deficits in MS are common, debilitating and frustrating. And they ARE a type of disability like any other that deserves accommodation.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ann, like Willow, I believe, wholeheartedly, that "employers are required to provide individuals with disability with as many accommodations as they can to help them perform well in their job".

                          I sort of feel like Willow is referencing me, as one of the posters who expected that you should be able to do your job. However, it sounds to me that Willow and I are saying much the same thing -- and that I also referenced the importance of going through the proper channels to request accomodations and that, in your original post, it sounded to me as if you believed that simply telling your supervisor, a couple of years ago that you had MS, was all that you needed to do.

                          Howevever, accommodations need to be requested. It is not enough to tell him, a couple of years ago, that you have MS. If you wish to keep your job, I strongly encourage you to pursue accomodations. Perhaps your Human Resource dept can tell you the appropriate way to do that. The ball is in your court, Ann. But, you need to grab the ball and run with it, before your "young" and "insensitve" supervisor takes it away from you and fires you because of "disciplinary problems".

                          In the end though, if, even WITH appropriate accommodations, one cannot do their job, then perhaps the losses that MS has thrust on one makes employment no longer an option. If employment was an option for everyone, there would be no SSDI. For some of us, we get to that point.

                          ~ Faith
                          ~ Faith
                          MSWorld Volunteer -- Moderator since JUN2012
                          (now a Mimibug)

                          Symptoms began in JAN02
                          - Dx with RRMS in OCT03, following 21 months of limbo, ruling out lots of other dx, and some "probable stroke" and "probable CNS" dx for awhile.
                          - In 2008, I was back in limbo briefly, then re-dx w/ MS: JUL08
                          .

                          - Betaseron NOV03-AUG08; Copaxone20 SEPT08-APR15; Copaxone40 APR15-present
                          - Began receiving SSDI / LTD NOV08. Not employed. I volunteer in my church and community.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mamabug View Post
                            Ann, like Willow, I believe, wholeheartedly, that "employers are required to provide individuals with disability with as many accommodations as they can to help them perform well in their job".

                            I sort of feel like Willow is referencing me, as one of the posters who expected that you should be able to do your job. However, it sounds to me that Willow and I are saying much the same thing -- and that I also referenced the importance of going through the proper channels to request accomodations and that, in your original post, it sounded to me as if you believed that simply telling your supervisor, a couple of years ago that you had MS, was all that you needed to do.

                            Howevever, accommodations need to be requested. It is not enough to tell him, a couple of years ago, that you have MS. If you wish to keep your job, I strongly encourage you to pursue accomodations. Perhaps your Human Resource dept can tell you the appropriate way to do that. The ball is in your court, Ann. But, you need to grab the ball and run with it, before your "young" and "insensitve" supervisor takes it away from you and fires you because of "disciplinary problems".

                            In the end though, if, even WITH appropriate accommodations, one cannot do their job, then perhaps the losses that MS has thrust on one makes employment no longer an option. If employment was an option for everyone, there would be no SSDI. For some of us, we get to that point.

                            ~ Faith
                            I agree with this. It's not "dismissing" cognitive issues to ask that people with cognitive issues still be able to do their jobs with accommodations. Having accommodations made doesn't mean your job being done for you because you're incapable of doing it anymore.

                            As many posters have said, this is an abominable disease that often steals out ability to work. That's just how it is. And think how much more difficult it would be for MSers to "come out" at work if we develop a reputation for using the ADA to cling to jobs we can't do.
                            Aitch - Writer, historian, wondermom. First symptoms in my teens, DX'd in my twenties, disabled in my thirties. Still the luckiest girl in the world.

                            Comment

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